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Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

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Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#161
post #156
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next war will be fought with AI. It's essential the West stays ahead in chip technology, one of the few advantages we still have. It could be the difference between winning or losing a war with China. > tangling their economy up more with that of the West so that they have more reasons not to go to war This strategy failed, China wasn't interested in becoming like the West. We're in a new cold war, it's time peop…

We are in a cold war because, like back in the day with the USSR and the old cold war, China doesn't want to turn into an Asian copy of the US. I'm no fan of PRC but I wish more countries would do the same. Traveling a lot today and you'll see American cultural imperialism everywhere. Besides, we do need another power to compete with the US so it can't do what ever the f** it wants to. Sadly the only real competition…

> Globalization is fine in some areas but when a generation can live off of pizza and burgers and yet have never tasted an Italian pizza or non-McDonalds style burger the world is a much poorer place. Everyone is turning into Americans. Asian Americans, Scandinavian Americans, etc.

For what it's worth, after chain restaurants become too dominant, the next level seems to be hipster burger joints, microbreweries and fusion cuisine restaurants.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#162

This could be great. Personal anecdote time, when I was using ESP32 there were some things it couldn't handle due to a very unconfigurable WiFi interface -- captive portal advertisement via DHCP specifically. (Before people get their knickers in a twist, it was connecting to a box that had no internet access, so there was no hostage situation there.) It turns out there are basically no open source or even American op…

I've just learned that the ESP32 is manufactured on a TSMC 40mm process. That's essentially caveman tech.

All those foundries based on old processes should be churning out at least equivalent (if not more capable) chips.

Heck, forget ESP32, is there a ESP8266 equivalent that's entirely made in the USA? Would love to use that instead - for many reasons.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#163

As he says here, the decision not to take risk and jump to EUV with TSMC and Samsung was the mistake that started this downfall and it snowballed. The decision happened somewhere in the pathfinding stage into 10nm. When Gerald Marcyk was running Intel components research back in the 2001 Intel was already considering using EUV lithography for the 45nm technology node that would come out 2007. It turned out that the s…

A lot of people were hoping someone would come up with a better way to make "extreme ultraviolet" (soft x-rays, really) light than the horrible kludge used now.[1] Syncrotrons were tried. (Whatever happened to Lyncean?[2]) What's used now looks like a physics experiment, not a production process. Drops of tin are hit with lasers to emit X-rays, which are then focused with mirrors on the mask and wafer. This takes a s…

What's stopping them from using hard x-rays? Those are really easy to emit. (Genuine question; not trying to suggest that they're all idiots who just never considered using hard x-rays.)

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#164
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in a cold war because, like back in the day with the USSR and the old cold war, China doesn't want to turn into an Asian copy of the US. I'm no fan of PRC but I wish more countries would do the same. Traveling a lot today and you'll see American cultural imperialism everywhere. Besides, we do need another power to compete with the US so it can't do what ever the f** it wants to. Sadly the only real competition…

> Globalization is fine in some areas but when a generation can live off of pizza and burgers and yet have never tasted an Italian pizza or non-McDonalds style burger the world is a much poorer place. Everyone is turning into Americans. Asian Americans, Scandinavian Americans, etc. For what it's worth, after chain restaurants become too dominant, the next level seems to be hipster burger joints, microbreweries and fu…

Yes but the most influential ones like movies and music doesn't seem to go that route sadly. With Disney+ children everywhere will grow up even more American.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#165

This could be great. Personal anecdote time, when I was using ESP32 there were some things it couldn't handle due to a very unconfigurable WiFi interface -- captive portal advertisement via DHCP specifically. (Before people get their knickers in a twist, it was connecting to a box that had no internet access, so there was no hostage situation there.) It turns out there are basically no open source or even American op…

I've just learned that the ESP32 is manufactured on a TSMC 40mm process. That's essentially caveman tech. All those foundries based on old processes should be churning out at least equivalent (if not more capable) chips. Heck, forget ESP32, is there a ESP8266 equivalent that's entirely made in the USA? Would love to use that instead - for many reasons.

Hard for me to read the level of hyperbole here, but does that mean it’s something that could conceivably be manufactured in a home?

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#166
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some problems with doing business in Latin America. Corruption (which manifests itself as bureaucracy that can commonly be accelerated by greasing palms) and taxation are both fairly high in many places. It's not all about how much you pay your workers. In my opinion the potential for a greater Pan-American economy is the number one counterargument to Chinese global dominance. We have almost everything we n…

Corruption actually makes doing business EASIER for a company with stockpiles of cash. It can even help you avoid taxes. So it is not a problem, it's an opportunity.

To an extent.

There's a threshold where it becomes near impossible to do business. I've seen laptops intended for employees... "disappearing" in customs. When a complaint was made, the reply was to not make a fuss, otherwise more laptops would sprout legs and run away.

Corruption also tends to come with lots of bureaucracy. At every level you have palms to grease. Things tend to take a while unless said palms (which sometimes change often) are properly and generously greased. Then you have different government agencies competing to get the... "funding" - and your company is caught in the crossfire. Good luck getting the components you need imported in a timely manner. That is, until you have finished setting up your... uh, "supply chain"? Which can take a while, because it's obviously all behind the scenes. Hope you have a good "guide".

In the end, you have a government that's working _against_ your company. They will (ironically enough) want to extract maximum value from you and your company. If the place is bad enough, your competitors won't be playing in a fair field either. It's not only how much you can offer, but who you know and what sort of dirt you have on them.

When corruption is really high, neither the police or the justice system will be fair to you. You better hope you have identified everyone that needs palm lubrication - otherwise, you know that particular judge you forgot about? Your competitor has them in their pocket.

Since the police in really corrupt places tend to be ineffective, another way a competitor can cripple your operations is to make you vanish. If it is a place where violent crime is common(not a bad assumption), then it was just another unfortunate statistic.

You don't really want that kind of "opportunity". It's not worth it to decrease taxation. If anything, you will be taxed just as much, except that's now off the books.

Not only you need stockpiles of cash, but you also need to understand the dynamics of the place you are trying to get into. Otherwise, you are just a wealthy(and clueless) mark.

Of course, said company would have to be based entirely in the target country. It couldn't be US-based with a foreign branch, otherwise anti-corruption laws would apply.

Source: born in a pretty corrupt country. Seen a fair amount of shady crap. Trust me, you don't want to deal with that stuff.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people were hoping someone would come up with a better way to make "extreme ultraviolet" (soft x-rays, really) light than the horrible kludge used now.[1] Syncrotrons were tried. (Whatever happened to Lyncean?[2]) What's used now looks like a physics experiment, not a production process. Drops of tin are hit with lasers to emit X-rays, which are then focused with mirrors on the mask and wafer. This takes a s…

An option would be to replace the laser and tin with some tape. [1] I know tape is a consumable item but is considerably less professional compared to a laser. [1] https://www.nature.com/news/2008/081022/full/news.2008.1185....

A laser is not just light. It is a specific wavelength. X-Rays are a spectrum. The EUV/soft X-ray is a part of that spectrum. There's also other properties that you want from the laser. But this tape-x-rays won't be easy to control or uniform in wavelength. Making it not a laser, even if you could collimate it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Continent” refers to single contiguous land encircled by seawater, that aren’t islands, at least as I think of the word. To the best of my knowledge, you are literally the only person who uses that definition. By that definition Asia, Europe, and Africa would be a single continent. North and South America would be a single continent. What school did you go to that they taught you there are 4 continents in the enti…

> 4 continents Isn't that six? Eurasia, Africa, Australia, North America, South America, and Antarctica, with India noted as "sub-continent" and Asia sometimes distinguished within Eurasia by mountain ridges.

> North America, South America

These are joined together by land, and are not individually encircled by sea. The Panama Canal doesn't count, as it is manmade and would silt up if not maintained.

> Eurasia, Africa

Ditto. The Suez Canal doesn't count either.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people were hoping someone would come up with a better way to make "extreme ultraviolet" (soft x-rays, really) light than the horrible kludge used now.[1] Syncrotrons were tried. (Whatever happened to Lyncean?[2]) What's used now looks like a physics experiment, not a production process. Drops of tin are hit with lasers to emit X-rays, which are then focused with mirrors on the mask and wafer. This takes a s…

An option would be to replace the laser and tin with some tape. [1] I know tape is a consumable item but is considerably less professional compared to a laser. [1] https://www.nature.com/news/2008/081022/full/news.2008.1185....

It's easier to generate hard X-rays than EUV. An X-ray tube is just an electron gun and a copper target.
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