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Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

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Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#781

Post by jokoon »

908B64B197 wrote: post #524
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

> This article points out that a lab outbreak could have happened in the United States and many places in the world. We need to avoid demonizing China over this if we want to ever find out the truth and learn how to prevent another pandemic outbreak. Then why hide information and prevent world-wide collaboration then?

Because there is no culture of transparency in China.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#782

Post by coupdejarnac »

throwawaysea wrote: post #752
Consultant32452 wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that China and China influenced corporate press in the US conflated "lab escape" with "deliberate release" so as to be able to demonize anyone who was asking serious questions. This is a pretty standard propaganda move, pretend the accuser said something that is adjacent to the real accusation but also relatively absurd, then argue against that. Never address the serious accusation. Another example o…

What do you call a cabal of American newspapers, tech companies (policing social media), and politicians (attacking Trump/conservatives) simultaneously conflating the two theories (malicious artificial virus versus leak of natural virus), attacking anyone suggesting an accidental lab leak aggressively, and censoring discussion of the same? It isn’t just “China influenced corporate press”. It’s the entirety of the lef…

There has been a massive, concerted effort by the PRC to deflect culpability. I'm a long time china observer/sinophile, and Chinese social media was abuzz with conspiracy theories that the virus was released by the US military before all the nonsense conspiracies started in the States. In review, China has accused the USA, Japan, Italy, Korea, and probably some others I'm forgetting for releasing the virus.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#783

Post by anigbrowl »

gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

Indeed. All sorts of accidents happen at biological labs. https://globalbiodefense.com/2019/09/21/explosion-confirmed-...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#784

Post by anthk »

twelve40 wrote: post #774
unishark wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theorists are always going to weave conspiracy theories, though. That doesn't absolve the media or the rest of us from being the adults in the room.

But some things make no sense at all. The most populated country on the planet - a vast, vast population across the area almost as big as the US - has been inexplicably reporting almost zero infections since like March 10, 2020 (way before any vaccines) while the rest of the world (except small and isolated regions), the richest and presumably the most advanced societies still can't get their shit together, are still…

When the Chinese GOVT says "stay at home", you-better-stay-at-home. That's the difference with the EU, and don't let me start on the US.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#785

Post by Aeolun »

incompatible wrote: post #642
Aeolun wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, CCP’s resistance to a proper thorough study of the origins of COVID is IMO not exactly appropriate. It is, in fact, highly suspect. I’m not at all positive that it indeed leaked from a lab in Wuhan, but the fact they won’t let an independent investigation anywhere near it makes me lean more strongly towards that as a possibility. The description of the last investigation into the origins of the virus felt…

I don't think that's quite accurate: https://thewest.com.au/news/health/who-team-visits-wuhan-res...

I uh, don’t see anything in this article except fluff? It basically says ‘researchers were in wuhan’.

The original I read had such helpful statements as ‘the chinese government insisted that every outside researcher was accompanies by a chinese partner’, ‘the government took days to procure the data, and when they finally did, a lot was missing’ and ‘a visit to x was denied for unclear reasons’.

I’m sorry, I’m vaguely remembering these, so they may not be 100% accurate.

Then the western researchers made one gloriously ambiguous statement while still in China, and turned about after they left the country.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#786

Post by DoctorNick »

DoctorNick wrote: post #715
kiawe_fire wrote: post #710

I look forward to seeing this article being retracted and taken offline, banned from being posted on social media, the author fired, and seeing people "cancelled" for sharing this article anywhere. You know... as happened only a few months earlier to people who wrote similar articles and discussed similar theories with very similar hypotheses, but who were NOT writing for a certain publication of a certain leaning. I…

I look forward to a bunch of HN posters uncritically swallowing State department propaganda.

I have to wonder if the upvoters realize I'm talking about the US State department...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#787

Post by ktzar »

bitcharmer wrote: post #778
ipiz0618 wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is demonized not because of an accident (if it was one). Even if it's confirmed that a lab accident was the cause, China holds the blame for hiding the truth, telling the world it's all okay, and arresting people that dared to speak out (even causing their deaths). No matter what was the origin, China is responsible for the outbreak. Btw, I don't think we can ever find out the truth. It's been over a year, and…

I couldn't agree more. There is so much evidence of China suppressing information I don't understand how so many people dismiss their role in spreading the virus beyond their borders. They had a choice to make: country-wide lockdown and travel ban or lie about it and make it spread worldwide. The former would leave their economy in a disadvantaged state while the latter would level the playing field for the rest of t…

China did a harder lockdown than any other country has done. Right from the beginning. Took an immense toll to its economy, right from the beginning. A WHO team was there investigating and gathering information on public health from the beginning.

I'm sorry, but in this case, China is the country who told the rest of the world what to do and the west, with its superiority mentality over the east, ignored it and got a while year economy down the drain.

In my book, conspiracies will always make their way to those who want to believe them.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#788

Post by coupdejarnac »

bitreality wrote: post #679
anthony_romeo wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Personally I’ve not dismissed this possibility at all. But as it stands, it’s just a hypothesis with suggestive information, but nothing concrete. There are verified wrongs to criticize them for right now, and can be a starting point for remediation, rather than drum up hate and criticism of mere hypothetical wrongs. (And of course, one such example of a verifiable wrong could be proof of Chinese institution…

The problem is that discussing this hypothesis in any form is often labeled as "offensive" and "racist". The generally accepted theory even in the West is the lab leak was somehow disproved. It's always baffled me, because the only way you could really disprove the lab leak theory would be by finding the original source of the virus. Instead, the media often attempts to disprove the lab leak by pointing out that COVI…

The lab leak theory originally came from netizens in China, and then it gained traction in the West. There was some sketchy stuff going on at the WIV, personnel disappearing from their website, etc. Regarding the accusations of racism, it's really annoying to be someone somewhat in the know after living in China having my firsthand experience discounted because it doesn't line up with the SJW perspective. I really like China. However, if I say that sanitary conditions there are abhorrent, it seems like pointing that out here gets me in trouble. It's just really frustrating seeing lots of people regurgitate what they've read or seen on tv from shoddy or biased reporting.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#789

Post by varjag »

abacadaba wrote: post #700
andrewflnr wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was that "lab escape" was conflated with "deliberate release" by conspiracy types early on, and once that took hold it became impossible to talk rationally about the accidental escape hypothesis.

Or conflated with that by people using it as a straw man to debunk more likely scenarios, your pick.

It happens in the comments here still, and not necessarily a malice. A kneejerk reaction to any claim amplified by the former administration, even if it's "the sky is blue". Same reason many otherwise sane folks mourned Soleimani.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#790

Post by twelve40 »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #780
twelve40 wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But some things make no sense at all. The most populated country on the planet - a vast, vast population across the area almost as big as the US - has been inexplicably reporting almost zero infections since like March 10, 2020 (way before any vaccines) while the rest of the world (except small and isolated regions), the richest and presumably the most advanced societies still can't get their shit together, are still…

Australia, NZ and many countries in Asia did just fine. You just need a government that has its shit together and a populace that complies with the government. When you're missing one or both of those elements of course you're going to have problems with a pandemic.

So both China's government and 1.4B populace have their shit together, fully solved at ~0 infections pre-vaccine for one full year now, but the US, the EU, the newly non-EU UK, and (to a lesser extent) Japan all failed miserably?
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