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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#671

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

JohnBooty wrote: post #621
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Celebrating neurodiversity is crucial! It is in my view a very basic human rights issue. However it does not, or at least should not, extend to excusing/permitting behaviors that hurt others. Much human anguish and suffering could be alleviated if we had a greater understanding of one simple truth: "your rights end where mine begin." On balance, I think RMS is ultimately a person who has greatly benefited the world.…

I just fundamentally reject the equivalence between “hurt” and “uncomfortable”. The idea that people have a moral obligation to be normal, that I’ve been injured when someone acts weird or offers distasteful opinions, could come straight out of a Moral Majority handbook. It only makes sense from within a strict monoculture, where everyone feels obligated to conform and confident that the things they have to conform with are unchanging.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#672

Post by umvi »

arnaudsm wrote: post #662
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Mob justice only exists because regular justice is not effective against sexual harassment. Victims have no other choice than do "justice" publicly. Fixing the justice system is the best solution. Only then we can cancel cancel-culture.

> Mob justice only exists because regular justice is not effective against sexual harassment.

I challenge this assertion. I think mob justice would still exist even if we had omniscient judges who could administer perfect justice in every scenario.

Mob justice is intoxicating. Mob justice is exhilarating. Mob justice can make you feel "a part of something" or "making history". Cancel culture extends far beyond sexual harassment. Mob justice is not about justice for most of the people in the mob. It's about wielding power over your peers. It's about squashing your ideological opponents from a position of faux righteousness.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#673

Post by medium_burrito »

cryptica wrote: post #440
disgruntled101 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are saying here would get you cancelled 100 times over if you were a public person, sadly.

It goes to show that it's not regular people who create 'cancel culture'. It's the financial elite. They do it as means to push forward a financial agenda. If those who orchestrate the cancellations were who they portray themselves to be, the hypocrisy would be brain-splitting. The only reason their brain lobes are still attached together is because they know that they're being deceptive and it's part of an agenda. I…

Enter the cartoon with a banker with the mob outside all "occupy wall street" on the phone with his PR firm, instructing them to the tell the mob "what identity politics is".

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#674

Post by hutzlibu »

ratww wrote: post #656
hutzlibu wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source on that someone faked that door sign? Because I do not see that in there. edit: and the downvotes while still providing no source for alternative facts, just strenghten my image of the FSF and its followers as a quasireligious cult. And nothing I want to connect with, despite myself living and loving open source.

> Because I do not see that in there. It's in the last paragraph.

Ok. My bad then. If this is true, it changes maybe some things.

And I lack the sources, but I recall people saying that the sign was there for quite a while, even if he did not wrote that by himself. And I actually would like a quote from him, to confirm that he did not write it. All that is in that source is someone saying it was not put up by him.

If it was really put up by someone else, it would be the question if it was a joke. Making fun of RMS well known attitude - and he left it as in agreeing, at least for a while - or if it was ammo for a smear campaign. Then it would make sense to investigate that and put it right.

But I actually suspect the former.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#675

Post by readwhatuwrote »

hutzlibu wrote: post #614
flippinburgers wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.

You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what? I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.

Who even cares? Are we throwing all genius autistics out of academia for their social missteps? Maybe we should just replace all the academics with people who are better at staying on narrative and within the bounds of political correctness, no matter if they're any good

Remember meritocracy is white supremacy [0] postmeritocracy.org[0]

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#676

Post by temp8964 »

cmiles74 wrote: post #661
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

I find it embarrassing that this is the top comment on this post. Not only is this comment mostly incoherent, it's pretty far from the facts at hand. These aren't hard to find, you can search Google or read the paragraph on Stallman's Wikipedia page.[0] Richard Stallman attempt to defend Marvin Minsky's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein was offensive. CNet[1] has a recap of the email thread (I believe Motherboard firs…

This is even worse. So this is not about he did something? Just he voiced his opinion on something?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#677

Post by noobermin »

compiler-guy wrote: post #647
noobermin wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were there any allegations of him doing unwanted flirting? This post seems to be conflating rms' cancellation with other people's unwanted behavior.

His inappropriate behavior toward women is well documented. One example where women traded advice on how to keep him away. https://mobile.twitter.com/starsandrobots/status/99426727746...

This is hearsay...if it is well documented may be it would help to provide an example of bad behavior from someone who dealt with it directly.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#679

Post by Angostura »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Why are you mischaracterising this? Complaints that "he make me feel uncomfortable". Isn't the reason he ran into problems.

In a deposition, one of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims said Epstein he instructed her to have sex with with the late Marvin Minsky of MIT.

RMS jumped to Minsky's defence, nitpicking about whether whether this could really be “sexual assault,” since the young woman, he reasoned, would have seemed to be presenting herself to Minsky willingly.

Whether or not, you think Stallman deserved the level of aprobium that hit him, it's nothing to do with accusations against RMS himself that he made anyone feel uncomfortable. Or "he once hit on me and I had to reject him"

And then you have the temerity to include, in this masterpiece of misdirection, the question: "Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty?".

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#680

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Neurodivergence does not excuse you for being called out for toxic behaviour. You're still responsible for your own actions, and to be very blunt, if your neurodivergence is that troublesome you should not be in power. I mean a lot of leaders have a neurodivergent condition where they don't give a shit about their subjects or employees (psychopathy), all they care about is themselves, their coke addiction, and making money for themselves and their shareholders.

Just because you're autistic doesn't mean you're not responsible for the things you do or say.

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