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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#661

Post by cmiles74 »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

I find it embarrassing that this is the top comment on this post. Not only is this comment mostly incoherent, it's pretty far from the facts at hand. These aren't hard to find, you can search Google or read the paragraph on Stallman's Wikipedia page.[0]

Richard Stallman attempt to defend Marvin Minsky's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein was offensive. CNet[1] has a recap of the email thread (I believe Motherboard first reported it[2]) if you are interested in the details. The part highlighted by CNet was this:

>Stallman's resignation comes just days after Motherboard published an email thread in which Stallman suggests that "most plausible scenario" is that one of Epstein's underage victims "presented herself to [former colleague Marvin Minsky] as entirely willing."

>When someone else on the thread points out that Virginia Giuffre was 17 when she was forced to have sex with Minsky, a pioneer in artificial intelligence and founder of the Media Lab, Stallman argued that "it is morally absurd to define 'rape' in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17."

In my opinion, this is very different from someone claiming that Stallman "made them feel uncomfortable".

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman

[1]: https://www.cnet.com/news/computer-scientist-richard-stallma...

[2]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-scient...

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#662

Post by arnaudsm »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Mob justice only exists because regular justice is not effective against sexual harassment. Victims have no other choice than do "justice" publicly. Fixing the justice system is the best solution. Only then we can cancel cancel-culture.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#663

Post by drewcoo »

neycoda wrote: post #571
hutzlibu wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was no vague anonymous - he once hit on me - lynch mob, but very concrete criticism of RMS. Things he said and did in the past - and in the present. (only thing would be, that his "voluntary resign" was obviously done with a lot of pressure)

Is it bad for a man to hit on a woman?

Only if the woman feel something she'd prefer not to and ascribes it to that action. Or claims to feel something. Ok, yes, it's bad.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#664

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

> We went from "he grabbed me by the pussy"

I hate having to write this. But this is one of the biggest examples of fakenews out there that “our side” is ok with because we want to be lied to.

As awful as he was, not a single woman ever actually accused Trump of this. His statements were off record to in discussion about how women react when you are famous.

We didn’t even go from “he grabbed me by the pussy”. We went from the actual quote ”and when you a star, they let you do it, you can do anything... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything”. [0]

If we’re going to call out fake things and being intellectually honest about accusations and “canceling”, let’s start close to home first.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37595321

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#665

Post by _ov7i »

api wrote: post #616
joana035 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman who, at my 16 was able to fool many men in selling me alcohol and nicotine, was able to interpret RMS arguments properly. It's a shame that his words are being twisted once again after everything he went through.

I can understand what Stallman meant, but I am not at all surprised at the reaction. This particular case has little to do with him hitting on women around him. This had been happening for decades and most people just rolled their eyes and made fun of him behind his back about it. This had everything to do with MIT's exposure to Epstein. MIT gets outed as having numerous researchers who took money from and traveled w…

"... and Stallman writes an e-mail that sounds very much as if he's obliquely defending Epstein"

Complete misinterpretation of what RMS has written about. He defended Minsky, not Epstein.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#666

Post by veridies »

hmpiece wrote: post #488
hourislate wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that the media outlets and "Woke Twitter", etc, were misquoting him saying he was defending Jeffrey Epstein and doing everything they could to get him fired from the FSF, etc. What's even worse was none of these "WOKE" were even concerned with "the victims of sexual assault" or any other noble cause. This was organized for ideological reasons and their goal was and is to replace everyone in a relevant positi…

Indeed, the woke are nearly always lying in cancel cases (at the very least by omission, often directly) and engaging in blatant defamation. Many cases could be taken to court, even in the USA with its relaxed defamation laws.

Then why aren't they, more often?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#667

Post by honkdaddy »

cmiles74 wrote: post #661
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

I find it embarrassing that this is the top comment on this post. Not only is this comment mostly incoherent, it's pretty far from the facts at hand. These aren't hard to find, you can search Google or read the paragraph on Stallman's Wikipedia page.[0] Richard Stallman attempt to defend Marvin Minsky's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein was offensive. CNet[1] has a recap of the email thread (I believe Motherboard firs…

Just to be clear, are you saying that you disagree with Stallman, that we _should_ morally define rape depending on the country it was committed in?

That is to say, if a 16yo had sex with an adult in Niagara Falls, ON where the age of consent is 16, then no moral crime had been committed, but if the two crossed over to New York where the law states 17, then the elder of the two is a rapist in your eyes? I believe that's the point Stallman was trying to make, and I'm curious to hear if you dsiagree.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#668

Post by readwhatuwrote »

api wrote: post #616
joana035 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman who, at my 16 was able to fool many men in selling me alcohol and nicotine, was able to interpret RMS arguments properly. It's a shame that his words are being twisted once again after everything he went through.

I can understand what Stallman meant, but I am not at all surprised at the reaction. This particular case has little to do with him hitting on women around him. This had been happening for decades and most people just rolled their eyes and made fun of him behind his back about it. This had everything to do with MIT's exposure to Epstein. MIT gets outed as having numerous researchers who took money from and traveled w…

I like how you managed to victim blame an autistic person for not having enough social skills to avoid an ideologically driven struggle session / witch hunt just now.

It's amazing what defenders of the Critical Theory / Twitter driven cancel culture will defend. Really, victim blaming an autistic person for not having social skills, literally one of the things affected most by their disorder? This is a new low to sink to for you lot.

What's next, you gonna blame an amputee for not running out of the way of a moving truck?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#669

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tuplot wrote: post #580
dralley wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not mob justice. There was decades of poor behavior here, he wasn't pushed out because of this singular event. https://medium.com/@thomas.bushnell/a-reflection-on-the-depa...

So 0.0001% of his messages, most of which were said at a time when the Internet/Usenet was an innocent substitute for the local pub, are offensive to some. And we say that's "decades of poor behavior"! 80% of the population says random stuff that is a 100x worse at parties. It this article is not an impersonation, it is pretty sad that such self-righteous and intransigent statements come from a Gregorian friar: https…

Oh hey, a new account comes in to white knight.
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