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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

jamanetwork.com

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#221

Post by spchampion2 »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #83
spchampion2 wrote: post #16

This is not well aligned with other research[1] showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines perform little better against the B1351 (South Africa) variant than they do against plain old SARS and distantly related bat COVIDs. They're also only semi-effective against the Brazilian P1 variant. Right now, all of the vaccines are reasonably effective against the variants commonly circulating in the US (including B117), which…

The article is talking about "escape neutralization". Neutralizing antibodies are not the only mechanism of the immune system, and the article even discusses another such mechanism: T cell immunity. T cell immunity appears robust for all variants from the data I've seen.

As far as I can tell, both the JAMA study linked in this post and the study I linked are describing antibody responses. I was trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison by sharing a similar study with contradictory results on a broader swath of virus variants.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#222

Post by foobiekr »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #203
Baeocystin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?

Disclaimer no experience with vaccine development but... Two problems with some types of engineered vaccines. The first is people can have existing immunity to some component of the vaccine. And the immune system wipes out the vaccine before it has a chance to generate strong immunity. Second people develop immunity to proteins in the vaccine that aren't present in pathogen you're trying to vaccinate against. As an e…

On the latter, you mean the sputnik vaccine.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#223

Post by splitrocket »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #87
anedcata wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be common to reply to this sort of fear mongering with "anecdotes aren't data." Cool anecdote, bro. Sorry for that person you, a random internet person I have no reason to trust, allegedly know, who is very, very unlucky. The people in power want us to stay afraid and easy to control. Fauci says vaccines work but doesn't trust them enough to stop going into public with TWO masks! Despite being vaccinated!…

Isn't mask wearing still required after vaccination because of the enforcement costs? I.e. it's too difficult to prove whose been vaccinated in every situation, so by requiring masks until the community reaches the target threshold

Vaccination is variolating: it lessens the impact of the infection, not preventing the infection, and thus the potential to be contagious.

A vaccinated person who has been infected is still contagious, just less so than an unvaccinated person.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#224

Post by splitrocket »

WalterBright wrote: post #131
mbrameld wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering these two questions will help you uncover the errors in your thought process: 1. Are masks suggested to protect the wearer from contracting the virus or to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus? 2. Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus?

> Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus? If that is the case, herd immunity cannot be achieved with vaccinations.

This is fundamentally incorrect.

Vaccinated people have a lower viral load, thus are less contagious, thus lower the R1.

If the r1 is below 1, then you eventually get to herd immunity. The more vaccinated people there are, the less dangerous the disease is, and the less contagious it becomes.

Herd immunity is not binary: it's a gradient, and if you are on the right side, things get better.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#225

Post by marcosdumay »

lukeinkster wrote: post #197
raphaelj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems pretty low compared to what is happening here in Belgium. We are at 22k deaths with +/- 25% of a 11M of the population having been infected (based on serology and statistical estimates).

Seems low compared to New York City as well. NYC has already had 30,564 deaths. Even if the whole population had already been infected, that would put the death rate at around 0.36% Antibody surveys suggest around 40% have been infected which puts the death rate around 0.91%

Keep in mind that the GP's link shows a ratio of more than 1% for people older than 60 years. The 0.26% average is certainly not the same everywhere.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#226

Post by [deleted] »

bredren wrote: post #134
Moto7451 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a coworker that never went to the ICU but can no longer taste or smell. Their family was never at a high risk and only felt normally sick. None the less the damage is done. No one wants to be maimed by this. Claiming “I’m not high risk (of death)” does not mean there is no risk of damage. We all need to do our part to stop the spread of the virus.

We have a friend in their late 30s who also never went to the hospital but got sick with covid five months ago. They have yet to regain their sense of taste or smell.

[deleted]

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#227

Post by rrdharan »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #96
jquery wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’d prefer we be like Brazil? Because the alternative for us was not Taiwan or Korea. They went far and beyond what Americans were willing to tolerate. Never mind the bad statistics behind your claim that covid is no worse than the flu. A athlete friend of mine in his 20s has permanent heart damage caused by the virus. Covid-19 is not a joke, no matter how much you wish it was. Americans could be out free, today…

Because the alternative for us was not Taiwan or Korea. They went far and beyond what Americans were willing to tolerate. I'm in Taiwan (and was for SARS in 2003). We had early travel restrictions and have to quarantine for 14-days after returning from abroad, and have to wear a mask on the subway. For the past few months there's been a mask rule at some indoor venues but it still allows for restaurants and bars to s…

Taiwan also has serious quarantine monitoring/enforcement that would never fly in America, which you didn’t mention:

https://qz.com/1825997/taiwan-phone-tracking-system-monitors...

‘They both pointed out that while there’s broad public support for the digital surveillance, many people don’t fully understand how the technology works. “The main worry is not knowing what it is, not knowing that turning my phone off means the police will come knocking, not knowing how they’re triangulating my coordinates,” Hsieh said, adding that the onus should be on the government to explain the technology clearly.

The government has said the tracking system would be discontinued after the pandemic passes.’

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#228

Post by irq11 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #167
irq11 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your best evidence of this phenomenon is an uncontrolled survey of people who knew they had covid, asking them if they feel bad? And the most commonly reported symptom is hypertension , at 13%? I’ll let the researchers do the talking here: ”Study limitations include small sample size, single study location, and potential bias from self-reported symptoms, the researchers acknowledged.” This is certainly not a rebut…

There are hundreds of thousands of people to point to. You're just trying to ignore them. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-... How many more cites do you want? There are plenty out there.

Are there? This is an opinion piece. This is your evidence? Really?

The OP linked to an uncontrolled, self-reported survey of those who claim to have long covid, and the most that showed is that a small (mild symptoms, like hypertension. Even the much-discussed “brain fog” was only reported 2% of the time in that biased sample.

Downvote all you want, but you keep making big claims, and backing it with anecdotes and editorials.

Want people to believe you? Bring data. Not blogposts. If there’s so much evidence, it should be easy for you.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#229

Post by icedchai »

evgen wrote: post #117
mrfusion wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see any reason new variants would ever stop coming. What are you proposing is the end point of all of this?

Here is something for you to consider: this is the new 'normal'. That world you lived in 18 months ago? Gone. Not coming back. There is no 'end point', it just goes on and we learn to adapt. Eventually we get better at it, learn more about what is and is not a risk, and a few things start to look like the 2019, but most things don't go back. This is the reality you need to adjust to.

Of course, nobody wants to believe this, but I suspect you will ultimately be proven right.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#230

Post by irq11 »

sdenton4 wrote: post #142
irq11 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your best evidence of this phenomenon is an uncontrolled survey of people who knew they had covid, asking them if they feel bad? And the most commonly reported symptom is hypertension , at 13%? I’ll let the researchers do the talking here: ”Study limitations include small sample size, single study location, and potential bias from self-reported symptoms, the researchers acknowledged.” This is certainly not a rebut…

That was the "let me Google that for you" response to your own completely unsupported claim. It seems like you're unwilling to look at evidence contrary to your opinions; the 'debate' is amongst deniers who aren't looking at evidence. I suggest some self reflection is in order; you're arguing with the same tactics as a climate change denier. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-... https://en.m…

You’re making the claim. Prove it. Don’t give me an editorial. Don’t give me a wikipedia page. Link to the controlled studies, showing the widespread damage that you’ve claimed.

You can’t, because they don’t exist. You linked to the best there is, and it doesn’t rise to any reasonable standards of scientific evidence. Self-reported data is almost worthless. Uncontrolled, self-reported data is worthless.

I’m perfectly willing to believe you, but editorials won’t convince me.

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