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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#131

Post by WalterBright »

mbrameld wrote: post #94
anedcata wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be common to reply to this sort of fear mongering with "anecdotes aren't data." Cool anecdote, bro. Sorry for that person you, a random internet person I have no reason to trust, allegedly know, who is very, very unlucky. The people in power want us to stay afraid and easy to control. Fauci says vaccines work but doesn't trust them enough to stop going into public with TWO masks! Despite being vaccinated!…

Answering these two questions will help you uncover the errors in your thought process: 1. Are masks suggested to protect the wearer from contracting the virus or to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus? 2. Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus?

> Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus?

If that is the case, herd immunity cannot be achieved with vaccinations.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#132

Post by sjg007 »

cadence- wrote: post #5

Thanks for sharing this. I actually see very little reporting on how this virus spreads among the vaccinated population. I would love to see new case numbers broken down by vaccinated and not-vaccinated people from countries like UK, US and Israel. So far I’m unable to find such data on the internet.

Breakthrough infections have been identified.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021030...

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#133

Post by WalterBright »

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this?

For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination.

70 million people in the US have received vaccinations. There ought to be plenty of data by now.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#134

Post by bredren »

Moto7451 wrote: post #102
outside1234 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to pile on this, I know a triathelete in my group, 24 years old, who had it in April of LAST YEAR and is still not at 100% (can't do any hard aerobics without getting wildly out of breath). We are still in a pandemic. Stay distant.

I have a coworker that never went to the ICU but can no longer taste or smell. Their family was never at a high risk and only felt normally sick. None the less the damage is done. No one wants to be maimed by this. Claiming “I’m not high risk (of death)” does not mean there is no risk of damage. We all need to do our part to stop the spread of the virus.

We have a friend in their late 30s who also never went to the hospital but got sick with covid five months ago. They have yet to regain their sense of taste or smell.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#135

Post by figaroniguzo »

WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified.

Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#136

Post by dbetteridge »

WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

Public health England has been tracking that sort of information in their SIREN study.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#137

Post by osrec »

figaroniguzo wrote: post #135
WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified. Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#138

Post by offby37years »

osrec wrote: post #137
figaroniguzo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified. Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” — John Dalberg-Acton

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#139

Post by lamontcg »

andy_ppp wrote: post #128
lamontcg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still important to stop this particular strain and to achieve sufficient vaccination levels to achieve herd immunity. That immunity will likely be durable for many years (based on the somewhat recent study of HCoV-229E). That will force the virus to mutate to achieve true escape immunity (a strain, not a variant, which can reinfect everyone all over) which will likely come at a cost to fitness, since one or two…

“That virus strain will not be as transmissible or virulent as what we are dealing with now, because it has had to make those costly "decisions".” I’m not convinced you can absolutely guarantee these changes will make the virus less dangerous, we could be unlucky and it could become worse.

Right now that is what is happening, but as the title shows those variants don't achieve immune escape.

The sum total of mutations necessary to achieve immune escape and overcome herd immunity is a lot more likely to come at a cost to overall fitness.

Also I can't guarantee that West Ham United won't win the Premier League, but the safe money is all on Man City.

Paper on the possibility of mild disease endemicity:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6530/741

AP coverage of that paper:

https://apnews.com/article/common-cold-india-coronavirus-pan...

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#140

Post by simonh »

WalterBright wrote: post #131
mbrameld wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering these two questions will help you uncover the errors in your thought process: 1. Are masks suggested to protect the wearer from contracting the virus or to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus? 2. Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus?

> Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus? If that is the case, herd immunity cannot be achieved with vaccinations.

Even if vaccinated people can contract the virus, they are likely to fight it off relatively quickly and keep the virus load in their bodes low, keeping their chances of transmitting it much lower than an unvaccinated person would.

Lets say being vaccinated halves your chances of passing on the virus compared to an unvaccinated person. If almost all the population get vaccinated, we can ease the lockdown to the point where we tolerate doubling the chances of re-infection. The lockdown easing and vaccination effect should cancel out. If vaccination reduces your chances of passing on the virus by 10x, then we can tolerate a 10x increased risk due to easing lockdown measures.

Worst case we may have to retain some limitations in social contact for a bit longer, but hopefully nowhere near as onerous or we've had to so far.

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