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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#201

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

yashap wrote: post #164
WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

Note however that Israel has closed its borders tightly, so Israel can't tell us much about the vaccines' effects on variants that haven't entered that country yet.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#202

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

osrec wrote: post #137
figaroniguzo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified. Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

> Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

To avoid protests that annoy it and could challenge it in the next elections. All Europe locked down last spring, but there is an accusation that France’s lockdown was unusually strict because that way Macron's government could, at the stroke of a pen, get rid of the Yellow Vests movement that had been so obnoxious over the preceding months. Meanwhile, in Russia it is clear that social-distancing laws are being used as one more tool against gatherings that the regime doesn’t like (while pro-regime gatherings might go ahead unhindered with zero masks or distancing).

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#203

Post by Gibbon1 »

Baeocystin wrote: post #181
yashap wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?

Disclaimer no experience with vaccine development but...

Two problems with some types of engineered vaccines. The first is people can have existing immunity to some component of the vaccine. And the immune system wipes out the vaccine before it has a chance to generate strong immunity. Second people develop immunity to proteins in the vaccine that aren't present in pathogen you're trying to vaccinate against.

As an example I think one of the vaccines based on modified viruses uses a different virus in the first and second shot.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#204

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

yorwba wrote: post #71
throwaway894345 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is downvoted; it’s absolutely correct. European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. For New Zealand it’s not like the ship’s crew is unloading goods at the last mile. A similar effect is at play in Hawaii, but the latter can’t deny entry to US residents because…

> European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opport…

For a freight truck to cross Europe can take multiple days, especially as drivers are not allowed to drive more than 9 hours a day (all European trucks are outfitted with a tachograph) and in some countries they have to stop for all of Sunday. During those days on the road, drivers need to be able to stop and use a quality toilet and buy food, which generally means a petrol station. That is the existing infrastructure – your vision of hermetically sealed, disease-free places to stop is simply unrealistic as considerable time and money would be needed to build these everywhere in Europe that a driver would need to stop.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#205

Post by albertgoeswoof »

standardUser wrote: post #161

I don't think I've ever seen an HN thread with so many anecdotes, assumptions and off-the-cuff theories and so little data or useful links.

Somewhat ironic that this is also an an anecdote

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#206

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

brandon272 wrote: post #158
ta8645 wrote: post #14

This is good news. Now maybe Fauci should rethink his idea that people need to wear their masks for another year even after getting vaccinated. One of his reasons was because of worry about the variants.

It’s bizarre to me that so many people seem to equate not having to wear a mask as the ultimate return to normal. Mask wearing is probably the least invasive, least inconveniencing thing that we have been asked to do throughout this pandemic, yet half the population acts as if it is the equivalent to being handcuffed to a steel post in their basement. If health officials said “after being vaccinated, do whatever you…

Some countries have mandated that masks be worn even outdoors and even when there is no one around. This has been the case in Poland and Romania for many months, for instance. The Polish health minister openly stated there is little scientific basis for this, he just thinks it is more likely that citizens will have their masks on when entering shops or meeting people if they have to wear it at all times.

Think about how much it sucks if you are a glasses wearer and your glasses are fogging up all the time (you can't even see the traffic lights when you want to safely cross the street), or how much it sucks to cycle long distances with this thing on your face.

I think a lot of Europeans would readily accept wearing a mask in shops for the next year. But yes, getting rid of this outdoor mask requirement would be a big relief and major return to normal.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#207

Post by ionwake »

lamontcg wrote: post #118
Tagbert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hearing from friends and family in Brasil that the Brasilian variant is more severe among younger victims than the original COVID version. There is an increase of deaths among twenty-year-olds as a result.

The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was also more deadly to younger people. Various theories have been offered as to why, none of which are proven, including that it may have been observational errors or due to overcrowding conditions due to the war and viral dose. I wonder if it isn't due to the virus coming under pressure due to a large chunk of the population becoming immune, so evolution favors higher transmissi…

I dont believe virus ever increase in lethality as pressures increase, I thought the opposite happens, they naturally becomes less lethal to be able to spread more effectively.

Also when you said " stupid to do so" what are you referring to?

thx

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#208

Post by Fomite »

hu3 wrote: post #109
irq11 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to stop all strains. SARS-CoV2 has multiple zoonotic reservoirs, transmits easily, and persists in the population via asymptomatic infection. We have eradicated one human virus in all of history, and it took a highly effective vaccine and a hundred years. The long tail is very long.

Curious, what virus we eradicated?

Smallpox and Rinderpest.

Polio and Measles are doable, and at this point more logistical and political problems than biological ones.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#209

Post by cwyers »

mrfusion wrote: post #30
jquery wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every person that dies (an agonizing death akin to medieval torture), a few more are in intensive care fighting for their lives. For every one of those, others end up in the hospital, spread the disease to others, suffer from “long covid”, or merely suffer greatly. Every person that gets covid adds to the likelihood the disease will become uncontrollable in the long term and endemic. Keep wearing your masks and s…

I don’t see any reason new variants would ever stop coming. What are you proposing is the end point of all of this?

The reason COVID=19 hit the way it did was because it was novel; there were not similar diseases from an immunological standpoint being spread widely. Right now, exposure to one COVID strain (or a vaccination against a COVID strain) seems to confer some benefits against infection and/or serious disease from another COVID strain. In other words, as COVID becomes less novel, we become more prepared for new variants. We may end up having to have annual COVID vaccines the way we do flu vaccines, but even people who are unvaccinated against a particular flu strain have antibodies from previous flu strains that offer some measure of protection. That's going to drive down the reproduction rate and the lethality of future COVID strains.

That said, there may not be a clear "end point" in the sense of we go back to how things were before. We may simply be heading towards a new steady state with periodic vaccination efforts and some risk of COVID variants all the time.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#210

Post by brianwawok »

okaram wrote: post #111
paulryanrogers wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't mask wearing still required after vaccination because of the enforcement costs? I.e. it's too difficult to prove whose been vaccinated in every situation, so by requiring masks until the community reaches the target threshold

Most places don require masks at all. The recommendation (for now) is to keep wearing mask as before. I assume this will change as/if/when more people become vaccinated.

Mask rules will change as active cases fall. There is a 10-30% of the population that refuse vaccines for political reasons. All we can hope for is everyone else getting the vaccine, and most of the anti-science people getting immunities via an infection.
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