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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#181
post #164

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#182

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

Agree we should now have data to look at but don't? They can have their kayfabe but when it comes to me injecting stuff to believe it I have questions.

There are thousands of actually qualified professionals looking at that data, including the licensing bodies of every developed nation. The EU has recently gone back-and-forth on the AZ vaccine. which would seem to only make sense under the assumption that they are actually cognisant of possible risks and trying to avoid them (and alternative some might want to argue is their hatred of the British, but that cannot explain the ultimate resolution, since EU still very much hates at least the Johnson government)

If you trust them, get the vaccine. If you don't trust them, why would you trust any data they might release?

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#183
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?

For one, AZ doesn’t use the pre-fusion stabilized spike protein in their vector, while the mRNA and J&J vaccines do.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#184
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what virus we eradicated?

Smallpox. I think we're close on polio?

We're getting there but it's super hard to do it in remote areas and conflict regions.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/health/in-pakistan-victory-agains...

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#185

I am very clueless on the vaccine topic (not a denier of covid or anti vaxxer). All I know is from listening to some interviews with a scientist in the field. But i still do not know what is the definition of "effective vaccine". What does it do? If you have covid and take the vaccine, will the covid go away? Are you still contagious after having the vaccine or can you still get the covid but without the bad effects?…

Vaccines are ways to mimic infection (hopefully) without the side effects of real infection, like getting sick.

The immune system is complex and layered. The body's primary response to an infection is to make the body inhospitable. We know this as a fever. Some infections, like the common cold, are defeated here.

There are more tools available for more resilient infections, one being antibody production. Antibodies are proteins that bind to pathogens, to act as a marker. Once marked, other mechanisms (white blood cells) can clean up.

It takes time for the immune system to design an antibody that can identify the pathogen. The produced antibodies generally hang around for a few months, or longer. This is driven by chemical factors. Fortunately, Memory T-Cells will last a lot longer, and these contain the information needed to identify the pathogen and produce new antibodies. If the same pathogen appears again, antibodies can be produced quickly.

An antigen is anything that triggers an immune response. This includes pollen, if you have hay fever. In the context of COVID, the antigens are usually spike proteins, which stick out from the surface of the virus.

It's also worth noting that this process isn't perfect. Exposure does not mean immunity. Immunity is not binary, either. T-Cells may prevent symptoms entirely, or their may be a lag.

So, now I think I can answer your questions.

The vaccine provides the antigens using a form of COVID that won't, or shouldn't, cause infection. This will still cause an immune response, which may be strong enough to cause side effects. The body will see the antigens and generate antibodies. The antigen/antibody combination is stored in memory T-cells. This process takes several weeks, and is strengthened by a second exposure.

If you already have COVID, unfortunately the vaccine won't help. Vaccines are primarily preventative. There are a few diseases with post-exposure vaccination (anthrax), but there are usually many contingencies involved. If you have had COVID, you should still get the vaccine, because you are not guaranteed immunity.

You may still be contagious or symptomatic after having the vaccine, but this should (at least) be reduced. There is still a lag between becoming infected and immune response, even if you have immunity. This will be much shorter in the immune group, however.

It's hard to say how long immunity will last for. On an individual level, you can find pessimistic cases indicating very short immunity. Remember everyone's response is unique, and unlikely cases are usually most reported. The wildcard is a mutated virus evading immunity. To eliminate COVID would be to vaccinate the world, which is highly unlikely given substantial portions of the world haven't yet admitted they have it.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These anecdotes are useful to remind us that many covid survivors still suffer from its damage. The data doesn't quantify these things yet , so cynical people, maybe people especially like you, might do well to pay them attention. Just because you're unlikely to die from covid, doesn't mean you won't be part of the 10% who retain symptoms past 3 months. It's not a binary outcome.

"Of these, the vast majority (>99.9%) resolve with no major sequelae." Citation needed. > 99.9% is an extraordinary number and probably needs extraordinary support.

Worldwide deaths are a little over 2% of total cases so it doesn’t seem extraordinary, just wrong.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be common to reply to this sort of fear mongering with "anecdotes aren't data." Cool anecdote, bro. Sorry for that person you, a random internet person I have no reason to trust, allegedly know, who is very, very unlucky. The people in power want us to stay afraid and easy to control. Fauci says vaccines work but doesn't trust them enough to stop going into public with TWO masks! Despite being vaccinated!…

These anecdotes are useful to remind us that many covid survivors still suffer from its damage. The data doesn't quantify these things yet , so cynical people, maybe people especially like you, might do well to pay them attention. Just because you're unlikely to die from covid, doesn't mean you won't be part of the 10% who retain symptoms past 3 months. It's not a binary outcome.

[deleted]

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#189

For people arguing that not being part of a risk group is a reason not to protect yourself, please take a lesson from brazil. Being part of a 'high risk group' does not saves you from infecting other people who are part of such groups. That's basically what happened in brazil: people who were not part of risk groups crowded, encouraged by the president himself[0][1][2]. The number of infected poeple soared and varian…

Also for selfish reasons. I know a 24 year old ballerina (so a professional athlete) who had it two months ago and is now at 80% lung capacity.

Here we go with the “I know someone that...” stories. Stories aren’t science. Statically those are extremely rare side effects.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#190
post #172

I am very clueless on the vaccine topic (not a denier of covid or anti vaxxer). All I know is from listening to some interviews with a scientist in the field. But i still do not know what is the definition of "effective vaccine". What does it do? If you have covid and take the vaccine, will the covid go away? Are you still contagious after having the vaccine or can you still get the covid but without the bad effects?…

Well, based on my understanding, we don't know for sure. What we do know, is that they give you a much higher chance of avoiding serious symptoms, including that most serious of symptoms, death. You won't be "virus-proof" completely, but someone vaccinated fully (so 2 doses for vaccines which require it), after a certain immunization period, which varies between 2-4 weeks after being fully vaccinated, will be super r…

How many million people have the vaccine globally? 100-200m? Yet we don’t simply know the very basic feature of a vaccine? And you want everyone to just take it. L. O. L.
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