Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get that, why not just not support safari if they intentionally make it difficult?
Because Safari has like 50+ percent of the mobile market share in the west
On the west side of the Atlantic.
Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
201–210 of 329 posts
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#202I love Safari as a browser, but I hate the fact that it neuters the web and makes it feel much less powerful. Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported. Notification support is lacking last I checked. No PWA functionality to speak of and webNFC won’t be added. Extensions are lacking largely due to being basically native apps that bring with them all the cost and overhead of being such. As a brows…
Web Bluetooth and Web USB, along with other useless things like Web Battery that Google loves don't make the web more powerful. It only serves to make the web more bloated and user hostile. And making new browsers that much harder to implement while taking the time of existing competitors. As a user I have never needed or wanted web bluetooth or web usb, and I have never seen a person in real life that uses these eit…
The Web is gone, ChromeOS it is.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#203This is why, despite it being monopolistic, I hope Apple can continue their requirement on using Safari's rendering engine on iOS. It's the sole remaining defense against a far worse monopoly. Neither the Mozilla nor Edge teams have the backbone to resist Google's web platform initiatives.
People choose to install chrome it doesn't come with Windows Machines or Macs yet is a very popular CHOICE of browser. IOS we have no choice and forced to to use Safari.
People can also choose to buy other phone.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#204> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. I recently worked on a heal…
If your progressive web app stops working because the browser is missing a feature, by definition you have not built a progressive app. It’s supposed to work everywhere, with progressive enhancements if platform features are available.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
For this specific use case, it's missing the Web Push API[1], which can be used to implement push notifications, and the Web Notification API[2], which can also be used for the same thing. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API [2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notificatio...
I'm willing to go as far as to say it's The one feature that's singlehandedly holding back PWAs entirely. Most apps that you use every day needs notifications for one reason another, mainly communication apps, and if you could do them with a web app it'd be a game changer. But Apple is holding us all back and has been for years.
If it is a progressive web app, then it should abide by progressive enhancement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement .
So no, lack of push notifications are not holding back PWAs. They are holding back web developers which choose to aggressively require new features, then get upset when they only work in the browser they tested with (invariably Chrome).
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish developers could get it through their skulls. I don’t want your notifications. Your app is not important enough that I’m willing to be interrupted by you. The lack of notifications is a desired feature. Please stop using notifications. It is almost always a pathetic attempt to try to “drive engagement” to your app. If I want to run your app I will run it. You don’t have to nudge me into it. The world would be…
> I don’t want your notifications. Your app is not important enough that I’m willing to be interrupted by you. The lack of notifications is a desired feature. Please stop using notifications. I don't want your phone calls. Your conversation is not important enough that I'm willing to be interrupted by you. The lack of phone calls is a desired feature. Please stop using phone calls. If I want to talk to you I will wri…
As someone who gets marketing calls every fine day, I agree with your every word. And with gp too.
The problem with not implementing notifications is that when they are useful (instant dispatch software), they are not implemented. But honestly I’d just spin up a telegram or email bot, if clients were not brainwashed with tekhnology. Messages and email are notifications. It is also a matter of minutes, opposed to creating a stupid service worker client-server-like runtime and trying to get things right without any test mode (long story short, implementing and debugging webpush requires publishing every change to a certified https host). There is even an entire company that sells you a properly configured webpush as a service. That’s just stupid.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#207It would be great if anything closed source was barred from using the word "privacy" in marketing.
It would be great if people just understood that they can't trust closed-source binaries.
To be fair, they can’t trust open-source either. Particularly when so much is happening server-side and on the cloud. Our trust model is fundamentally broken.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#208> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) Ah yes... such as push notifications. Firebase would be so much more useful if Safari supported push notifications...
What do you mean by "useful"? I've been using Safari exclusively for years now and the lack of push notifications hasn't been a problem. It's actually good because it shields me from all kinds of shitty websites demanding notification permissions while having no good reason to send any.
As as been said by many other users in these threads you can disable it globally if you know you never want it.
This is the thing I don't understand about some Apple advocates these days. Even the idea of having a choice is unacceptable.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
But Chrome/etc are totally “allowed” on both macOS and iOS...? Not sure what you mean here.
they are not allowed to use their engine on iOS, they are just a customized skin over safari/webkit (and I honestly think that’s the right way, as google has no interest in saving iPhone battery).
The problem with browser engines is that they require just-in-time compilation to be fast, and Apple wants all code in an app to be signed and available to inspection. JIT compilation requires a way to add new, unsigned code to the process.
That’s a rabbit hole of DLC, plug-ins and vulnerabilities they don’t want to go into.
Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy
#210I love Safari as a browser, but I hate the fact that it neuters the web and makes it feel much less powerful. Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported. Notification support is lacking last I checked. No PWA functionality to speak of and webNFC won’t be added. Extensions are lacking largely due to being basically native apps that bring with them all the cost and overhead of being such. As a brows…
> Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported.
Web Bluetooth: A Chrome only feature. Not a standard or standards track. Firefox and Safari both said that they will not implement due to the security issues.
Web USB: A Chrome only feature. Not a standard or standards track. Firefox and Safari both said they will not implement due to the security issues.