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Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

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Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#191

Post by sbuk »

luckylion wrote: post #182
sbuk wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or... Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that.

> Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that. The other opinion seems "notifications cannot be disabled, therefore notifications are bad". If you don't want to see notification requests, you never will. Granted: you need to be able to change settings, in a very restricted environment or with a custom clone of some browser you might not be able to. For most…

I didn’t express an opinion either way. But it’s clear to me that there are some amongst us that believe that a difference of opinion must mean everyone who disagrees must therefore be in a cargo cult. That is what I am taking issue with. It’s also against the guidelines here.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#192

Post by Anktionaer »

heavyset_go wrote: post #17

> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. I recently worked on a heal…

I don't get that, why not just not support safari if they intentionally make it difficult?

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#193

Post by mrtksn »

watermelon0 wrote: post #134
heavyset_go wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want websites to be able to send notifications to my phone. You might not, but our users requested desktop and mobile notifications. The notifications let sick patients know when their prescriptions are ready, facilitate care-provider check ups, etc.

PWA cab be 'installed' to the device, similarly to 'Add to home screen' option. It would be reasonable to allow notifications only to installed PWA, and not just any website you visit.

It seems like the that’s the obvious solution at first but if you think about it, this will make every site ever to greet you with “add to home screen” popup. Just like aggressively trying to make you install their app from the appstore. The number will increase since there won’t be a barrier of entry.

Then there would be people who are trying to make you "install" their PWA at any cost, then sell their install base and the buyers will simply rename the app/website to anything they want.

It can actually be another golden age for the web while making users hate their phones.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#194

Post by djxfade »

Anktionaer wrote: post #192
heavyset_go wrote: post #17

> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. I recently worked on a heal…

I don't get that, why not just not support safari if they intentionally make it difficult?

Because Safari has like 50+ percent of the mobile market share in the west

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#196

Post by kyriakos »

Google234 wrote: post #95
heavyset_go wrote: post #17

> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. I recently worked on a heal…

I don’t want websites to be able to send notifications to my phone. Sites abuses this and are always asking on my computer and it’s too easy to accidentally say accept.

You can always disable all notifications from browser for your use case.

Personally on Android I have enabled notifications from a total of 2 sites and I find the experience quite good. I actually think its better than having to install an app for something that you rarely use just for that one time you will need to receive a notification from it.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#197

Post by kyriakos »

Google234 wrote: post #124
heavyset_go wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want websites to be able to send notifications to my phone. You might not, but our users requested desktop and mobile notifications. The notifications let sick patients know when their prescriptions are ready, facilitate care-provider check ups, etc.

Have those users download some simple app if this is so important to them. Or let them enter their phone number to get more reliable text notifications. Just because you have a good use doesn’t outweigh the all the bad abuse.

How is this abused when you have to opt in to get the notifications? If you opt out once the site cannot request it again.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#198

Post by kyriakos »

Google234 wrote: post #141
cforrester wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because you have a good use doesn’t outweigh the all the bad abuse. Personally, this is how I feel about downloading apps to my phone for every individual service and product. I see no need to download a separate app for each individual service I'm interested in, as the potential for abuse is higher than getting the occasional notification from my browser app and visiting their website. However, it sounds to m…

99% of apps you download aren’t spam unlike the 99% of web notification requests that are spanmy

Then 99% of the websites you visit are spammers, that's a different problem.

Removing this feature from all users though is not a good solution either. Chrome allows you to block notifications from all sites so you don't have to dismiss requests anymore which seems like it would suit your needs and at the same time allow others to use this feature.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#199

Post by kyriakos »

zambal wrote: post #174
Google234 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of apps you download aren’t spam unlike the 99% of web notification requests that are spanmy

In my experience the usage of notifications in native apps is hardly less spammy than web notifications.

Instagram, Facebook, Twitter are the biggest offenders here. Its worse cause for these apps if you allow them the send notifications permissions you are automatically opting-in for everything and you need to use their UI to granularly remove the ones you don't want.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#200

Post by pjmlp »

userbinator wrote: post #36
heavyset_go wrote: post #17

> (Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it.) The fact that Apple refuses to implement basic features in mobile Safari that Firefox and Chrome have had for years now, and the fact that they refuse to allow other browser engines on iOS is the reason why we can't have nice things like progressive web apps. I recently worked on a heal…

The more I see posts like this that complain about other browsers lacking features and essentially encouraging the "Google-isation" of browsers, the more convinced I am of the power of Google's gigantic monopoly-enhancing propaganda-machine. Firefox unfortunately has no choice but to be dragged along by Google.

ChromeOS has won, Safari is the only one left standing on the way that actually matters.

Firefox as much as I love it, and has been my main browser linage since the Netscape days, doesn't stand a chance.

Specially when everyone is now packaging Chrome as Electron, while praising it for GNU/Linux desktop apps.

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