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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#311

Post by oblio »

WalterBright wrote: post #298
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

As a counterexample, the US has 50 states, and no internal protectionism. Yet there are no "colony" states.

The starting point for the US states is/was much closer than that of random countries around the world, to each other.

US states, despite what Americans tell themselves, are culturally/socially/economically a lot more homogeneous than random countries around the world are to each other.

And US states are all protected by the same federal government. None of them can really be abused by outside forces with little/no repercussion.

They really can't be compared (US states vs countries around the world).

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#312

Post by nytgop77 »

dahfizz wrote: post #210
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you with a straight face equating consequences of breaking the law (fines and jailtime) with paying rent?

No, I'm making it obvious that collecting fees does not constitute forcing someone to do something.

stop dating this girl or i will raise the rent x10. my english is not that good, but 'forcing' does not seem far.. maybe 'coercing' fits better, but the idea is very similar, make somebody do stuff against their will.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#313

Post by sgt »

rhplus wrote: post #263
someonehere wrote: post #231

I read their reasoning why they’re stopping, but my gut tells me China is behind this. They’re actively tapping Africa for natural resources and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some dealings behind closed doors to hand over cacao to China.

Playbook: 1) Ghana needs capital to build cacao processing plants 2) Foreign investors loans capital and plant is built with skilled foreign labor 3) Once running, plants are staffed by unskilled local labor 4) Ghana has an unrelated financial crisis and defaults on loans 5) Foreign investors take ownership of cacao processing plants through liens 6) Foreign investors threaten to close plants unless they get a free-t…

This is terrible. How did it get that far, so quickly?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#314

Post by oblio »

lostinquebec wrote: post #284
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Do you have a counter factual? It seems to me too early to predict a lot about Eastern Europe. You could very well be correct, but I'd want to see some countries that tried this a lot longer ago.

It's hard to say, but...

Almost all the cases of countries going from underdeveloped/developing to developed did it through various forms of protectionism: Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, China, Hong Kong.

I'm trying super hard to think of a country that did it by liberalizing fully. Eastern European countries might be the examples you're looking for, but it's too early to say.

If you think about any sport, or any activity in general, it makes sense. You never expose the hard parts, you only expose what you can easily defend or what can defend itself. Or if you're China, you fake exposing the soft parts and then you catch everyone in your tar pit :-))

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#315

Post by rossdavidh »

While I realize it's not precisely the same, this reminds me of Qatar's decision a while back to stop just exporting oil, and instead start doing the refining, etc. themselves. Basically working their way up the production chain. Of course, just because it worked for Qatar doesn't guarantee it will work for Ghana, but the strategy makes sense.

The main risk will be if their domestic chocolate producers aren't able to pay enough to Ghana's cocoa farmers, and instead of creating a chocolate industry they decimate their cocoa farming sector. Hopefully they have gotten their ducks at least somewhat in a row before they started this.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#316

Post by prepend »

prepend wrote: post #55

I think it’s good to see raw producers start working up market to make their own chocolate. I think a Ghanaian chocolate brand actually owned by Ghanaians and made for export would market very well. It’s interesting to me how much tasty and interesting stuff in Africa has not been marketed internationally and there’s lots of room for them to grow and develop. For example, fonio [0], is a grain native to west Africa t…

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonio

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#318

Post by elmomle »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #288
the_af wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a bit of both. I think I first read about this in Lessig's Free Culture [1], but even Wikipedia mentions some of this: somewhat ironically because of the MPAA's current heavy-handed tactics, Hollywood was founded on piracy and patents infringement. Some moviemakers moved West to explore new territories and climates (Wikipedia mentions D.W. Griffith) but others soon followed suit in order to avoid Edison's pate…

> "without copyright there will be no writers" Just recently had a bit of a good laugh about this. I decided to read Caesar's notes on Gallic wars, and downloaded some random .fb2 It turned out to be a preview fragment, which ended with a stern warning that it is illegal to break copyright laws and that this book can be legally purchased via provided link. I'm sure Gaius Julius is very happy with how these guys prote…

That's ostensibly for the translator (of course it's more for the publisher). You can get (typically Edwardian-era or earlier) public domain translations, or the original Latin, for free in lots of places.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#319

Post by pgsimp »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

It sounds like reinventing the wheel. Why not import the knowledge, rather than develop it again from scratch? Maybe you can imagine it could work with chocolate, but take something more complicated like cars, computers or phones.

It seems absurd to demand non-industrialized countries should develop all those things by themselves, while developed nations stand by. At the very least it would take decades, while people in the developing country remain poor.

Also, I take issue with the formulation "when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements" - it is still simply a trade, "withholding aid" is not different from a sum of money offered in a trade. "pressured into it" is leftist propaganda.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#320

Post by pgsimp »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

"They've all been bought by foreign companies."

But were the local owners forced to sell? And is there an actual issue with them selling to foreign companies?

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