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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#281

Post by leto_ii »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Also a Romanian here. My take is similar to yours, but I would go even further in saying that the 90s were even more catastrophic in terms of privatization and liberalization. Remember the 'shock therapy' years? Prices doubling every few months? Entire industries collapsing, prized factories being sold for scrap metal? Millions losing their jobs etc. - a lot of that stuff didn't have to happen that way. A lot of it was forced via Washington Consensus type reforms.

To my mind the EU was our salvation not so much because of its economic nature, but because of its political one. The free market was the price we had to pay in order to be able to travel, work, study abroad, earn real wages that we could use to invest back into our own country etc. The EU also insured a decent degree of geo-political, strategic stability. Without the EU we may have ended up like our neighbors to the North/East.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#282

Post by jjcon »

BoorishBears wrote: post #214
jjcon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The above was in a response saying they could take 20 years to invest in cocoa elsewhere - the shortage is very temporary in comparison

... no it didn't. Didn't even imply it. Literally there was an aside that used "20 years" and that's it. Why would you lie about a comment I can literally just scroll up to read? The pandemic and its effects doesn't need to last 20 years for Ghana and the Ivory Coast to take greater control of their cocoa crop. We're literally watching it happen right now.

> It's not so long since Vietnam went from not growing coffee to being one of the world’s largest producers in under 20 years. I bet they could do it with cocoa too.

It’s right here... maybe do a read through before breaking HN rules and assuming poor intent

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#283

Post by nix23 »

zymhan wrote: post #182
auiya wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a smoked chili pepper which I believe is native to the area that is labeled as "ghana pepper" for export, and is hard to find elsewhere. It is _incredible_.

AFAIK peppers are native to the Americas, I'm not sure there is a "native" African pepper. Though they certainly could have been cultivating them for 400-500 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Origins

>AFAIK peppers are native to the Americas

You are right, the oldest proven use and origin of pepper is from Mexico, exported from the portugese all over the world...but the chinese and india peppers are still a bit of a mystery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#284

Post by lostinquebec »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Do you have a counter factual?

It seems to me too early to predict a lot about Eastern Europe. You could very well be correct, but I'd want to see some countries that tried this a lot longer ago.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#285

Post by jjcon »

saiya-jin wrote: post #257
jjcon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to COVID yes, but there are shortages of everything right now - cocoa isn’t unique in any way in that regard

Issues with coca shortage were way before any covid hit the distribution channels. Its not trivial plant to get good crop, not ruined by pests, fungus etc. Quality matters a lot.

There were rumors that minor disruptions could cause shortages but supply was still having no trouble meeting demand (that is until COVID)

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#286

Post by nix23 »

exhilaration wrote: post #188
zymhan wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK peppers are native to the Americas, I'm not sure there is a "native" African pepper. Though they certainly could have been cultivating them for 400-500 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Origins

Thanks, another item to add to my list: corn, tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers. All are now staples worldwide but were unknown outside of the Americas until ~500 years ago.

You can add Tobacco too ;)

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#287

Post by mytailorisrich »

audunw wrote: post #119
killtimeatwork wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where China was smart I guess. They didn't sign any treaty which forced them into free trade or IP protection, but instead slowly allowed their industries to build up via IP theft and strong protectionism. Now they have giant companies on par with the West's. Whereas everyone who joined the EU in the decade of 2000 (and the Washington Consensus before that in the nineties) is now a pawn of the Western capital…

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked.

That's because of geopolitics: These countries are small enough that they cannot be a threat to the US. In fact they are dependent on the US.

China, on the other hand, is a strategic adversary irrespective of their IP laws (and enforcement of those laws) or even of their political regime.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#288

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

the_af wrote: post #276
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it has more to do with weather, particularly ~300 sunny days per year.

It was a bit of both. I think I first read about this in Lessig's Free Culture [1], but even Wikipedia mentions some of this: somewhat ironically because of the MPAA's current heavy-handed tactics, Hollywood was founded on piracy and patents infringement. Some moviemakers moved West to explore new territories and climates (Wikipedia mentions D.W. Griffith) but others soon followed suit in order to avoid Edison's pate…

> "without copyright there will be no writers"

Just recently had a bit of a good laugh about this. I decided to read Caesar's notes on Gallic wars, and downloaded some random .fb2

It turned out to be a preview fragment, which ended with a stern warning that it is illegal to break copyright laws and that this book can be legally purchased via provided link. I'm sure Gaius Julius is very happy with how these guys protect his interests.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#289

Post by marcosdumay »

tim333 wrote: post #158
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

When I was younger tariffs were popular in developing countries but they seldom seemed to produce much prosperity - quite the contrary really. Maybe if you apply the tariffs very intelligently but most developing countries are not blessed with great non corrupt governments. The >pressured into free trade agreements (for example by making aid dependent on this) is kind of telling. A lot of the long time free trading c…

Things are even more problematic than tariffs keeping the people poor.

Developing countries do not have hugely diverse domestic industries with top of the line offerings. How can one create a successful business if every niche or high quality product you have around costs a lot more for you than for your compettitiors in developed countries?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#290

Post by valuearb »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

This is of course silly. Slowing your rate of growth now does nothing to make you grow faster later.
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