Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#191

Post by jjcon »

jeromegv wrote: post #151
barry-cotter wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Swiss can buy from 1/3 of global producers that’s still plenty to satisfy the demand. And it’s not like the world is short of areas where cocoa would grow. It's not so long since Vietnam went from not growing coffee to being one of the world’s largest producers in under 20 years. I bet they could do it with cocoa too.

There's actually a worldwide shortage of cocoa, it's apparently not that simple.

Due to COVID yes, but there are shortages of everything right now - cocoa isn’t unique in any way in that regard

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#192

Post by grecy »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #20
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>"we should allow developing countries" Not to pick on you, but I often hear this frasing in the 'first world' and surely you dont 'allow' or 'disallow' internal policies to an sovereign nation? It sounds like a Freudianslip or something, the reality is that its easy to bully or bribe officials in developing nations.

> Not to pick on you, but I often hear this frasing in the 'first world' and surely you dont 'allow' or 'disallow' internal policies to an sovereign nation?

Oh, it's much simpler than that. If an undeveloped (or developing) country doesn't place nice with the "Developed" rules, the IMF will just bankrupt their currency and send them back to the dark ages.

Why do you think Switzerland is the world's 3rd biggest exporter of Coffee [1], while not growing a single bean ? .. and Germany is number 5.

The IMF doesn't let coffee growing countries like Ethiopia or the Ivory Coast export processed beans, because they want the immense profits going to developed countries. Also the WTO plays a role and just doesn't tax unprocessed raw coffee beans coming out of those poor countries, but taxes processed coffee (and chocolate) goods at astronomical rates.

[1] http://www.worldstopexports.com/coffee-exports-country/

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#193

Post by 1MachineElf »

Having worked in Whole Foods and been surrounded by family who prefer organic, free/fair type foods, I must say I do understand there is a market for the chocolates we usually see marketed as non-European. There's an emphasis on dark chocolate, "artisanal blends" with spices, etc. The kind of chocolate people pay extra for because they think it's special, then don't touch because they paid extra for and want to preserve it, only for it to expire in the pantry.

Let me be honest. I prefer European-style chocolate. Milk chocolate. White chocolate. They're much richer, and I hope there will continue to be a great supply of this type of chocolate. Maybe that Swiss brand recognition has more to do with the fact that it actually tastes really good versus what's being attributed to hand-wavy concepts about colonialism and power structures.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#194

Post by oblio »

viro wrote: post #139
skocznymroczny wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific ownership and the details are irrelevant, what matters is that a large chunk of their profits is extracted out of the country and doesn't get reinvested.

Thats not how the economy works. Walmart profits don't get "invested" in the States. They get invested into Walmart. The wages and taxes those wages fuel always gets applied locally. Nothing is being "extracted". Thats just nationalist bullshit used to fuel protectionism.

If the very well paid jobs stay in the home country, how do you call that?

If the interesting work all stays in the home country, how do you call that?

We like to kid ourselves that multinational companies are truly multinational, companies of the world. What's the percentage of non-American top managers, for example, working for American based multinationals? It's probably in the low 1-digit percentages.

There is a definite advantage to bejng an early investor. For these companies the risk is comparatively small and the rewards they reap are huge and on very long time horizons.

It's not super clear cut that it's all nationalist BS.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#195

Post by arethuza »

nasmorn wrote: post #127
andrepd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possibly one of countries in the world I'm least interested in visiting.

Where else to go to a good oldfashioned lashing?

Saudi Arabia apparently has stopped using flogging:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/25/saudi-arabia-t...

However, plenty places still use corporal punishment, including Singapore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_corporal_punishment

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#196

Post by labawi »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #129
skocznymroczny wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific ownership and the details are irrelevant, what matters is that a large chunk of their profits is extracted out of the country and doesn't get reinvested.

Is that really true? The international supermarkets may chose to invest by open new stores....secondly, they had to buy the local supermarkets in the first place...that went somewhere...maybe that was reinvested locally. It is not clear cut.

> they had to buy the local supermarkets in the first place

When foreign owners extract profits to recover their investment or pay whomever, wealth is in fact leaving the country - because they still own the capital (stores) yet get money back.

It's not clear cut based on this. They could have invested beyond price, brought knowledge, improved efficiency ... It's also possible they are in effect extracting wealth colonialist style, which is something to beware of - at scale it can have severe consequences for local economies.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#197

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dahfizz wrote: post #190
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is threatening fines if you exceed the speed limit. By that logic. Are allowed to break the law? Are you not?

My landlord raised my rent this year. Are they not allowing me to live in my apartment?

Are you with a straight face equating consequences of breaking the law (fines and jailtime) with paying rent?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#198

Post by treis »

zz865 wrote: post #160
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

I'm from a country where there are several locally owned supermarkets. They're all very nice but eye wateringly expensive. I'd love if Aldi/Carrefour/Costco moved in.

This is the counter argument. By protecting an inefficient sector you make it harder for every other sector to operate. If Ghana moves to protect their Chocolate manufacturing that will likely come at the expense of their Cocoa growers.

The best way seems to start with low level work and move up the chain.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#199

Post by tyingq »

Shadonototro wrote: post #148
tyingq wrote: post #60

"With Ghana’s move towards processing its own cocoa, the world, and not just Switzerland, will experience a massive shortage since Ghana is responsible for about 45% of the world’s cocoa." That seems like bigger news than the headline.

they'll move production elsewhere, problem solved why people do not think nowadays?

I'm no expert, but there are articles from many different sources saying that the transition will result in a crisis, and will take a long time to resolve.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#200

Post by Florin_Andrei »

oblio wrote: post #112
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romania still has at least one local supermarket chain I can think of: Oncos. I’m not sure how many locations they have outside of Transylvania, though. Sadly, Romania’s competitiveness in building its own businesses in Europe is weakened by being left out of Schengen. Considering that Mark Rutte’s party just won reelection in the Dutch elections, sadly nothing is likely to change on that front for years – he is the…

That's on our government. We should just start vetoing some of those important treaties or other big agreements. We need to start pressuring the other EU members into pressuring the Netherlands for us.

Well, it's a matter of leverage, isn't it?
Post reply on HN