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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

251–260 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, another item to add to my list: corn, tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers. All are now staples worldwide but were unknown outside of the Americas until ~500 years ago.

Cacao seems like a highly relevant addition while you're at it...

Really?!?!

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#252
post #27
post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

I've been in Massachusetts for a while, which is a small American state. And guess what? 20 years ago there used to be many more local supermarket chains, that over time were increasingly absorbed or destroyed by massive national chains. I feel like this same story plays out all over the world, except that when you have countries like in Europe it feels like a more personal type of event e.g. "those foreign superchains are out to get our local wholesome stuff." But in reality maybe it's mostly just business.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#253
post #222
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Saudi Arabia, UAE, Canada and Saudi Arabia are 'stuck' selling natural resources? I think it's probably a much better plant to extract a good deal of wealth from the natural resource and invest it in other areas of higher value creation, even in the same vertical. There's a good chance that Ghana's policies are needlessly constrained. More obviously there are 100 things Ghana could do to improve living conditions…

Maybe the government is trying to pressure Swiss companies up the value chain to move processing operations to Ghana? That seems like a reasonable way to increase income to Ghanaians and build local human capital, without having to start industry from scratch. I don't know the fine details of how chocolate is made, but a chocolate bar seems like a fairly straightforward industrial product. Why should it be made in so…

The story of this century, "cut off useless middlemen", Europe has a lot of comfortable useless middlemen left over from the colonization period.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#254
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where China was smart I guess. They didn't sign any treaty which forced them into free trade or IP protection, but instead slowly allowed their industries to build up via IP theft and strong protectionism. Now they have giant companies on par with the West's. Whereas everyone who joined the EU in the decade of 2000 (and the Washington Consensus before that in the nineties) is now a pawn of the Western capital…

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them?

You seem a bit misinformed. ASML CEO has repeatedly showed extreme desire to sell in china (it already comprises the fastest growing DUV market)[1]. It's the american pressure, indirectly or directly exerted which is causing issues. If it were upto ASML SMIC would already be establishing it's EUV fabs.

[1] https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-10-16/dutch-tech-giant-asm...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#255
post #32

I really hope Ivory Coast will join Ghana on this, as they did for the LID bonus case. Together they account for over 2/3 of cocoa production. So, they can pretty much reshape the cocoa/chocolate market and break out of colonialistic trade agreements for the benefit of their people.

If the Swiss can buy from 1/3 of global producers that’s still plenty to satisfy the demand. And it’s not like the world is short of areas where cocoa would grow. It's not so long since Vietnam went from not growing coffee to being one of the world’s largest producers in under 20 years. I bet they could do it with cocoa too.

Yep. It would probably take another 20 years to develop another Cocoa producer as prolific as Ghana and Ivory Coast. Also, Cocoa only grows within 20 degrees north and south of the equator.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#256
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2002-2005 I worked with all the supermarket and hypermarket chains in Romania, I still have a couple of friends in CxO positions in the top 5 companies; you are missing the full picture on what happened there, but the story is too long for a comment here; the 2007 change had zero impact of what already happened in the early 2000s.

I wanted to keep it simple for non-Romanians. The process started as Romania was implementing the EU acquis, after 1999. I'd be interested in the story, if you have time, but my only comment for everyone else reading this, these are technicalities, regarding the gist of my comment. They only change the timeline, but the main idea is the same.

That is the point, the main idea is wrong. The 2 major factors were lack of experience of the Romanian owners (I had very close friends that worked at the failed Univers'all chain, it was total chaos) and capital to build the right format at the right quality.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#257
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a worldwide shortage of cocoa, it's apparently not that simple.

Due to COVID yes, but there are shortages of everything right now - cocoa isn’t unique in any way in that regard

Issues with coca shortage were way before any covid hit the distribution channels. Its not trivial plant to get good crop, not ruined by pests, fungus etc. Quality matters a lot.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#258
post #168
post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

Is the difference between developing and developed countries really the lack of tariffs or is it due to poor governance? I feel like the reason why countries are always so pro-tariff is because the benefits of tariffs go towards a small group of people, whereas the cost of tariffs are diffused. But small costs add-up and if you start applying the tariffs to other industries then you start seeing the impacts in the co…

South Korea. China. The US. The UK. Singapore has pretty much no manufacturing.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#259
post #238
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

Even domestically, the reason Hollywood is the center of the film industry is because California was too far from the East coast for patents on moving picture cameras to be effectively enforced.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#260
post #168
post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

Is the difference between developing and developed countries really the lack of tariffs or is it due to poor governance? I feel like the reason why countries are always so pro-tariff is because the benefits of tariffs go towards a small group of people, whereas the cost of tariffs are diffused. But small costs add-up and if you start applying the tariffs to other industries then you start seeing the impacts in the co…

In fact, if you want actual free trade, then trade in labour must also be freely allowed.

Freedom of movement to everyone, as inside the EU, would make even more sense. Every country is rather protective of that though.

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