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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#271

Post by sofixa »

runawaybottle wrote: post #263
sofixa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're a year in. We can identify at risk cases, and, from the beginning, only heavy cases get to the hospital.

Huh? No. Give it a rest. The United States hospital system didn’t get inundated because the target demo visited it. Hysteria got everyone going to the hospital. That’s it. You know how I’m sure? Because it’s the same phenomenon that got everyone to stock up on toilet paper. It was the fucking FLU. What a shame. Anyone that disagrees with this better fucking provide the Covid numbers in comparison to previous year flu…

Who is talking about the US hospital system?

Today, hospitals in France at 83% capacity, in the region around Paris at 104%. During the first wave, the situation in Italy was so bad doctors had to choose who had a higher chance of survival and only admit them, and leave others to die on the streets.

I cannot believe there are still people in an alternative reality.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=home...?

Here are some numbers. Do check when was the last time a "flu" killed ( confirmed) 2.7m people. Not to mention it's still ongoing, mutating, and new variants are more easy to spread and heavier, especially among younger (<50 years) people. Please educate yourself and stop spewing nonsense that was debunked a month in the pandemic.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#272

Post by tim333 »

jobigoud wrote: post #269
tim333 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's certainly worth doing risk reward calculations but so far they seem pretty clearly in favour of taking the vaccine.

If you assume you are 100% getting the virus maybe. But if you take a lot of precautions, work from home, don't get out unless necessary, wear a mask... it's not clear at all.

I guess if you are very low risk. I figure as a guestimate - people killed by vaccines - prob less that 1 a day. People killed by covid - about 7000 a day. So covid looks worse. Not a sophisticated analysis although the regulators do do those.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#273

Post by raducu »

tyfon wrote: post #260
raducu wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the low blood platelet a direct result of the clots, isn't that expected? Don't the clots need/use up thr platelets in the process of clotting?

I have no idea since I am no doctor but from what I read in the article it's not a common situation. The usual treatment for blood clots is blood thinners. Not exactly sure how they work but I've thought it thins it by lowering the number of plates. But it seems that the spike protein on the virus/vaccine is quite similar to a protein on the blood plates so if the body has a runaway immune system response to the vacc…

Thanks so much for the info.

I was just wondering about Israel -- they vaccinated sooo many people, if this was an issue with the body's reaction to the S protein, it should pop up in Israel too.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#274

Post by bainsfather »

bainsfather wrote: post #241
GavinMcG wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=3 here. It's misplaced to be talking about orders of magnitude when a single case would drastically move the needle. If there were only one case in Norway (i.e. 1 in 130,000) it would still be orders of magnitude difference. But that's not meaningful.

If the rate were 1 in 2.3 million, then with 130,000 people vaccinated: p = 1/2,300,000 N = 130,000 Prob(0 cases) = (1 - p)*N = 0.9450... Prob(1 case) ~= p * N * (1 - p)*N = 0.0534... Prob(2 cases) ~= p*2 * (N*2 / 2) * (1 - p)*N = 0.0015... Prob(3 cases or more) = 1 - P(0) - P(1) - P(2) ~= 2.886e-05 Which is small enough to refute you comment, yes?

I just realised that using * twice to represent a power shows up as just a single * - here is the correct version (the numbers are anyway correct):

Prob(0 cases) = (1 - p)^N = 0.9450...

Prob(1 case) ~= p * N * (1 - p)^N = 0.0534...

Prob(2 cases) ~= (p^2) * (N^2 / 2) * (1 - p)^N = 0.0015...

My apologies for that.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#275

Post by milkrocks »

vibrio wrote: post #4

Based on all the information provided in this article, this article is premature to publish. The headline is accurate, as 'experts say', but lack of any independent support of data supporting the claim, makes this dubious (at best) to publish at this point.

Based on all the information available about this vaccine, this vaccine is premature to administer.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#276

Post by Bjartr »

Bjartr wrote: post #231
dekhn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a better article, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/health/astra-zeneca-vacci... ? """Calculating further, he said, roughly 1 percent of the 1,000 to 2,000 daily blood clots — 10 to 20 a day — would occur in the vaccinated patients just as part of the normal background rates, not related to the vaccine. “Only if epidemiological data show that that rate is higher, would one start to wonder about a causative re…

Exactly, for all we know the clotting rate could be lower within the vaccinated group.

If anyone has data to support either conclusion vs the base incidence rate, I'd love to see it rather than being downvoted.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#277

Post by dekhn »

dsnr wrote: post #229
dekhn wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the news article doesn't say; it attributes a quote to the doctor saying "it's the vaccine" but it's unclear whether that means "bad batch". Personally, if 3 health workers all go to the same hospital in a remote region complaining of clots, it's more likely that something local happened (as you say, QA, or any number of other sources).

It‘s not local, there have been similar cases in Germany and Italy, with confirmed deaths.

The committee "concluded that the vaccine is not associated with an increase in the overall risk of thromboembolic events, or blood clots," Cooke said.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#278

Post by sobriquet9 »

simonh wrote: post #86
sobriquet9 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your options are not just A) take the AZ vaccine right now, and B) never take any vaccine. You can also wait until more data becomes available, or until another vaccine becomes available. Doing so does carry some incremental risk, but this risk is smaller than the risk of not getting vaccinated ever.

I specifically talked about the risks of delayed vaccination and did not frame the choice in the extreme terms you described.

Looks like it was a pretty short delay:

https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-team-discovers-thro...

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#279

Post by timr »

adrr wrote: post #264
timr wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your article is from September. Q4 data is now out so you can get the full 2020. You're certainly welcome to do the work to prove the (extraordinary) claim that you're making. As I said, even if you can find a few examples of growth amidst the broader disaster, most are nowhere near what they would have been.

First article on Google News. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/02/01/tai... “ Taiwan's economy grew 2.98% in 2020 compared to a year ago, advance estimates by the island's statistics office showed on Friday — the growth outpaced China's 2.3% expansion”

The Chinese growth rate was in the CNBC article. So basically, you're saying that Taiwan grew.

I'll give you Taiwan. Now tell me about the rest of Asia.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#280

Post by krallja »

afavour wrote: post #259
macinjosh wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID is not the virus, it is the disease that results from the coronavirus. The virus is the contagious part. Sure, but do you really believe everyone was so hygienic that the flu was entirely eliminated in some areas? Most of the trips I have taken out involve at least a couple encounters with people wearing their masks improperly, touching their face, sneezing, coughing, etc. We should see at least some small amou…

The actual data does not show zero cases, but it does show an incredible decline in flu infections this year. There will always be a small number of people wearing masks incorrectly but that doesn’t invalidate everyone that does. And it’s not just masks etc, it’s also the lengthy lockdown, working from home instead of commuting on public transit, etc etc. It does seem strange that a hospital would report absolutely z…

UNC is in the Research-Triangle, not a sparse area: https://chapelboro.com/news/health/unc-hospitals-report-zero...
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