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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#121

Post by jancsika »

logicchains wrote: post #41
groby_b wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fully for that. And when we find out that a hard lockdown would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives, I hope we'll also have the guts to lock up the people who advocated against it, simply to further political goals. And try them for murder.

How about trying for murder the people who advocated the global "soft" lockdown that plunged hundreds of millions of people in poor countries into poverty ( https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/10/07/c... ) and killed hundreds of thousands of children ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-childr... ), just to increase the life expectancy of their 80 year old grandparents by a year or…

> just to increase the life expectancy of their 80 year old grandparents by a year or two.

HN Quick Capsule Review:

* a user named "logicchains" begins a nationwide campaign to lock up the set of people who a) love their octogenarian grandparents and b) advocated for a lockdown.

HN Quick Capsule Review Future Edition:

* bored adtech recounts uncle's harrowing run in with a union job

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#122

Post by qalmakka »

hungryhobo wrote: post #93
qalmakka wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense whatsoever. It just sounds smart, but it totally misses the point. Both are medications. Both are taken by healthy individuals. The comparison is sound and makes sense.

Are all medications vaccines? Are all medications used to prevent an highly transmissive disease? Are all medications designed to be administered within a short period of time? Come on it doesn't take a genius to see it's an apple to orange comparison

> Are all medications used to prevent an highly transmissive disease

We may argue this makes any rare side effect from the vaccine, which is meant to avoid a potentially serious illness, more acceptable than those from the pill.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#123

Post by Daho0n »

acallaghan wrote: post #45

The rate of blood clots as a side effect for the AZ covid jab is less than that of the combined contraceptive pill - does that mean that both need to be discontinued?

One is voluntary, one is not (not really). There's a huge difference in a vaccine for everyone causing deaths and medication you can live without that you chose to take. There's nothing comparable between the two.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#124

Post by adrr »

timr wrote: post #55
adrr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the it will be shown the countries who took it seriously are going to winners both in terms in deaths, long term care for long haulers and economy. Asians countries are booming since their economy wasn't affected because the stringent lock downs controlled the virus.

> Asians countries are booming since their economy wasn't affected because the stringent lock downs controlled the virus. This is an exaggeration, at best. There may have been countries that grew in the latter part of 2020, but to characterize these as "booming" is misleading. Japan had its first economic contraction since 2009 (down 4.8% over 2019). They've been flirting with deflation throughout 2020. And they're o…

Vietnam, China,Taiwan had positive GDP growth in 2020 and as far as i know the only countries with positive GDP. Your article is from September. Q4 data is now out so you can get the full 2020.

Countries that failed to contain the virus like Europe and the US had negative GDP growth and racked up large amounts of debt.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#125

Post by lyschoening »

b112 wrote: post #42
afavour wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a real-life example of the runaway railcar switch dilemma. The train car is heading towards a crowd of millions of people and will plough through the middle of them killing many hundreds, or you can throw the switch and divert the railcar so it hits a handful of people prone to the blood clot reaction. In this situation it's not that much of a dilemma, though. It's not as if those prone to blood clots are n…

Yes, but, there are close to 200 vaccines. It isn't as if all vaccinations have stopped, there are other options, and panic and fear on the side of omg must vaccinate now, now,now! ? Any hint, even the slightest, that complications may be ignored, could result in untold masses refusing vaccination out of fear. So let's pause one vaccine for a few days, and see if moving ahead, or more research is required.

Who is to say that other vaccines don't have the same side-effect? That could especially be assumed of the other viral vector vaccines, so Johnson & Johnson, Sputnik and CanSino, none of which have received much scrutiny so far.

Even if the mRNA vaccines are safe, we depend on J&J and AZ doses for our reopening plans in Europe. We can expect economic damage from any wait for alternative vaccine doses.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#126

Post by sofixa »

runawaybottle wrote: post #90
sofixa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about trying for murder the people who advocated that the economy is more important and killed thousands of people through negligence? We can never know due to the vast array of different variables involved, but to say what Brazil is going through, or what some US states went through, and the associated death toll is somehow better than a lockdown seems a very weird take. When thousands are sick, and hospitals ar…

The hospitals are full because massive amounts of exaggerated takes on Coronavirus were propped up by many vehicles (media, moral heroes, etc). We couldn’t identify the true at-risk demo and target them. No, enough of the moral take. We didn’t approach this pragmatically, and we need to stand up against the grandstanding that fervently uses emotional hostage taking as a talking point. FUD was at maximum from the star…

We're a year in. We can identify at risk cases, and, from the beginning, only heavy cases get to the hospital.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#127

Post by lars »

donovanian wrote: post #111
lars wrote: post #84

I'm happy this research has been done so quickly, but am somewhat annoyed that the public conversation is so focused on whether or not the vaccine can possibly cause any problems, and not at all focused on the risk management question of what the optimal choice here is. The chance of getting a blood clot seems so low that it may for all I know be equivalent to the risk of dying in the streets while jaywalking to get…

> Compared to the risk of going unvaccinated, it's an obvious choice. I think the insidious and repugnant effect of this line of thinking is that it subverts the body autonomy and free will that every human being should enjoy. The issue isn’t only risk, rather it’s individuals deciding based on their own judgement, which may involve their own evaluation (informed or not) of risk. The public health establishment is se…

Did you respond to right comment? You seem to be arguing against something that I'm not arguing for.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#128

Post by Daho0n »

donohoe wrote: post #96
bumbada wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a significant number for a medicament that is given to healthy people. If you had children and one of them died as a result of a vaccine, you would not say is a small population affected. There are other vaccines that can be used. I believe Oxford will license Sputnik and manufacture it.

Is it significant? The contraceptive pill has known risks of blood clotting that are significantly higher than that. If we are full of concern about this, maybe we should be focusing more on a drug that is used by millions of women year over year to improve its safety. https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-method...

No one is forced to or risk death by not taking contraceptives. Don't compare apples and lightbulbs just because they both might have the same shape. It's nonsense.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#129

Post by afavour »

b112 wrote: post #104
afavour wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are other options Not with sufficient supply there isn’t. That’s the issue almost every country is facing, and AZ production plants can’t just flip a switch and start making Moderna vaccines instead. No matter what if you stop using the AZ you’re going to have a sharp drop in the number of vaccinations you’re able to do. That would almost certainly result in more deaths than the side effect of the vaccine. >…

I'm sorry, but anti-vaxxer nutjobs do that hype all on their own. And people are already sensibly worried about rushed testing, and approval processes. (It is sensible to be worried, and to keep a sharp eye.) Now there appears to be a complication with one vaccine. No hype is required, for people to become enraged if there is no investigation. Most jurisdictions have said 'pause for a few days, until we look into thi…

> By your response, you're suggestion that we should not have even bothered with clinical trials? Just inject anything we thought might work, right away, just in case?

That's very clearly not my suggestion. You're being absurd. You're talking as if the AZ vaccine had no clinical trial. It did. It's been proven safe for the vast, vast majority of the population.

At no point did I say that this shouldn't be investigated. It should be. But there is no need to pause the rollout of the vaccine while that happens. A reminder: 40 cases in 17 million. Very few of those 40 cases have been fatal. "Pause for a few days" is very generous. How many days? We all know investigations like this can go on for weeks. Months, even. All the while the much more dangerous thread, COVID, is allowed to spread further.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#130

Post by CookiesOnMyDesk »

acallaghan wrote: post #45

The rate of blood clots as a side effect for the AZ covid jab is less than that of the combined contraceptive pill - does that mean that both need to be discontinued?

The risk from pregnancy is way higher than the risk from covid. You'd accept a 5% risk to avoid a 10% risk, but you wouldn't accept a .5% risk to avoid a .001% risk. From the vaccine blood clot data it looks like ~.07 thousands of a percent die from blood clots, while for young people the risk of death from covid is around ~.7 thousands of a percent. Thus if a) the blood clots are caused by the AZ vaccine, and b) the risk of getting covid as an individual is <10%, taking the AZ vaccine carries a higher risk of death than not taking it does.
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