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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

sciencenorway.no

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#131

Post by hungryhobo »

qalmakka wrote: post #122
hungryhobo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are all medications vaccines? Are all medications used to prevent an highly transmissive disease? Are all medications designed to be administered within a short period of time? Come on it doesn't take a genius to see it's an apple to orange comparison

> Are all medications used to prevent an highly transmissive disease We may argue this makes any rare side effect from the vaccine, which is meant to avoid a potentially serious illness, more acceptable than those from the pill.

Sure, if we have no alternatives, and the news of these side effects will not impact the rollout of other vaccines

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#132

Post by hungryhobo »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #74
hungryhobo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and a criminal both breath, does this mean you should also be arrested?

Criminals aren't arrested for breathing. Next!

Boeing 737 max has a lower crash rate than cars, do you think the ban was warranted?

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#133

Post by Daho0n »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #114
lyschoening wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers are three healthcare workers out of 120,000 vaccinated in Norway, with one death, so the risk is 1 in 40,000 from what we know. On top of that we can speculate that healthcare workers are more likely to seek treatment than the average vaccine recipient and they are healthy adults of average age.

That's an odd sample to use unless you have some sort of agenda. The 40 out of 17MM is much more statistically significant.

If you give a vaccine to 17 million people and 40 of those are children and all 40 children dies then should we just ignore that fact because the "40 out of 17MM is much more statistically significant"? Of course not.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#134

Post by mynegation »

bumbada wrote: post #85
auiya wrote: post #17

Astra Zeneca says it's less than 40 cases in 17 million. Are those numbers accurate? That seems like quite a small population affected.

That is a significant number for a medicament that is given to healthy people. If you had children and one of them died as a result of a vaccine, you would not say is a small population affected. There are other vaccines that can be used. I believe Oxford will license Sputnik and manufacture it.

Did you mean to say AstraZeneca will produce it? As I understand Oxford is the developer and AZ is the producer.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#135

Post by fab1an »

acallaghan wrote: post #45

The rate of blood clots as a side effect for the AZ covid jab is less than that of the combined contraceptive pill - does that mean that both need to be discontinued?

The clotting with AZ is very different and more serious than what the thrombosis associated with the pill - about half of those who get it die even with best medical care. It predominanctly affects folks who would have a miniscule risk of death by Covid19, so this absolutely needs to be investigated.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#136

Post by dhimes »

raphlinus wrote: post #92

Not specifically in relation to this latest Norwegian claim, but an excellent backgrounder on the blood clot problem: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/it-s-very-special-pi...

Excellent find- thank you.

“It’s a very special picture” of symptoms, says Steinar Madsen, medical director of the Norwegian Medicines Agency. “Our leading hematologist said he had never seen anything quite like it.”

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#137

Post by sudosysgen »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #108
piokoch wrote: post #75

Is there some massive action against AZ vaccine. Looking on any provided data it seems that those blood clots cases are below population averages, but everyday I read about someone killed by AZ vaccine. I feel lost, frankly speaking. AZ vaccine is way cheaper than Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, could it be some PR action from those producers whose business is hurt by AZ. I don't want to sound as some proponent of conspir…

This is the first big vaccine from AZ, so part of it is that they are just bad at the various practical bits of the process compared to the more experienced multinationals. So for example, problems with quality control made for a unnecessarily challenging analysis of trial data. Slowness in reporting details when possible complications showed up in during the trials made the US authorities really pissy and they've st…

Maybe it would have been better after all if not just AstraZeneca were able to manufacture the vaccine, as was originally planned.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#138

Post by mchusma »

Daho0n wrote: post #128
donohoe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it significant? The contraceptive pill has known risks of blood clotting that are significantly higher than that. If we are full of concern about this, maybe we should be focusing more on a drug that is used by millions of women year over year to improve its safety. https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-method...

No one is forced to or risk death by not taking contraceptives. Don't compare apples and lightbulbs just because they both might have the same shape. It's nonsense.

No one anywhere to my knowledge is being forced to take any COVID vaccine.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#139

Post by dekhn »

dsnr wrote: post #18
dekhn wrote: post #15

There is absolutely not enough evidence from this particular doctor to justify the claim. It's irresponsible to publish this.

> In collaboration with experts in the field from the University Hospital of North Norway HF, we have found specific antibodies against blood platelets that can cause these reactions[...] So the evidence is definitely not from only „this particular doctor“, but from a group of experts on the matter.

the article doesn't say the "experts in the field" agree with the doctor, just that they collaborated, on a technical part of the experiment.

Again, this is such a small sample and out-there group that it's not representative and there are many explanations that are more likely than "the vaccine causes blood clots".

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#140

Post by dekhn »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #77
dsnr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In collaboration with experts in the field from the University Hospital of North Norway HF, we have found specific antibodies against blood platelets that can cause these reactions[...] So the evidence is definitely not from only „this particular doctor“, but from a group of experts on the matter.

> we found specific antibodies against blood platelets So are they claiming that this is actually due to the vaccine formulation itself, i.e. does this finding exclude the initial hypothesis of a Quality issue or a specific 'bad batch' of the vaccine?

the news article doesn't say; it attributes a quote to the doctor saying "it's the vaccine" but it's unclear whether that means "bad batch".

Personally, if 3 health workers all go to the same hospital in a remote region complaining of clots, it's more likely that something local happened (as you say, QA, or any number of other sources).

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