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Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

chaos.social

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Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#161
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I build something, I alone get to decide what my labor enables and what it does not. If you disagree with my choices, you’re free to use a tool built by someone whose values better align with yours.

Just don't call it free software. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html "The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0)."

Interesting point. Would like to hear what someone like RMS would say about this case.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't with the not tolerating, it's with the pushing for others not to tolerate. Freedom requires choice. Our problem is that we've built almost our entire ecosystem on systems where a single actor's intolerance can deny millions of people access to a product. This seemed like a good idea at the time. Apparently what it comes down to is the entire economy needs to be duplicated? Banks, payment providers,…

> Apparently what it comes down to is the entire economy needs to be duplicated? Banks, payment providers, app stores, content delivery networks, web hosting, all the way to operating systems. What it comes down to is if you're a fascist you won't be allowed to participate in the economy at all to spread your message. Service providers who cater to fascists will be cut off by the banks, and banks that refuse to do th…

Now, quick, define "fascist"

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that. Private companies should be able to remove apps from their store. However, we should make it more possible for alternative stores to be available. Side-loading (including on iPhones) should be a protected ability, not government officials deciding that Apple can’t ban white supremacists from publishing hate speech apps on Apple’s App Store.

>Private companies should be able to remove apps from their store. Why should they unless the app violates the law? And please take into consideration the fact that we aren't talking about small / mid size businesses, but giant behemoths and we're trying to apply some rules to the biggest ones.

And why should those huge companies be able to collect rents from their App stores?

Protecting side-loading (legally and technically) solves both problems. And limits the ability of the government to do the same kind of moderating as they’d first have to somehow disable sideloading. (Imagine the government trying to disable ability to run arbitrary code on all laptops or PCs. Possible with enough manpower, sure, but way harder than just moderating an App Store.)

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like those evil resurrecting revolutionists in myanmar, hongkong and russia?

You’re making my point. The government isn’t going to protect speech more than private companies. Be careful for what you wish for on asking the government to step in.

The government has legal limits with which it cannot infringe on speech. That's not to say it always works perfectly, but at least if the government prevents my speech, I have recourse to challenge it in the court system on constitutional grounds. If Google or Apple does it, I have zero recourse, and the limits of the speech on their platforms are decided entirely unilaterally.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#165
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I build something, I alone get to decide what my labor enables and what it does not. If you disagree with my choices, you’re free to use a tool built by someone whose values better align with yours.

Just don't call it free software. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html "The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0)."

Which Mastodon client doesn't respect this freedom? Tusky is GPL v3 (https://github.com/tuskyapp/Tusky/blob/develop/LICENSE.txt). If you disagree with Tusky's choice to prevent accessing gab, you're free to fork it.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#166

If they ban a client for the content it can access, why don't they ban web browsers entirely ? Google Chrome allows access to illegal and hateful content too.

For the same reasons Khamenei can tweet that an entire country is a malign tumor and needs to be removed and eradicated and Twitter is still in the stores. For the same reasons silly places like Parler get nuked on Jan 6th pretenses when most of the planning happened on Facebook but Facebook's still there. Power's power, and Lenin's question of who/whom is always relevant.

Partially a percentage of badness fits into the equation too, though. It's not as reducible as you're implying. Facebook, as much as I dislike it, is mostly people sharing memes and life updates with some terrorist planning that is to some extent actively hunted and removed. Parlor is the opposite, except that the conspiracies are encouraged, and indeed the company was built on this philosophy.

Surely this is a relevant distinction?

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#167
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not tolerating xenophobia, racism and bigots in general is a big point for a lot of people. The paradox of tolerance is something that many people should consider.

The problem isn't with the not tolerating, it's with the pushing for others not to tolerate. Freedom requires choice. Our problem is that we've built almost our entire ecosystem on systems where a single actor's intolerance can deny millions of people access to a product. This seemed like a good idea at the time. Apparently what it comes down to is the entire economy needs to be duplicated? Banks, payment providers,…

If you perceive tolerance as a peace treaty rather than a moral precept, then the paradox of tolerance disappears.

https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1...

You don't have to tolerate the intolerant, and the people running the app stores are free to make their choices of who they allow into the store.

If you want to be associated with fascists and racists, that is up to you, but you will not be welcome in civilised places. You can always run your own app store which allows those groups.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will do this. Firefox is starting with their extensions to block content that the devs are biased against. Very soon only web browsers that censor to their bias will be allowed in the play store.

Huh? Do you have some more information on the Firefox bias blocking?

I believe GP is referring to:

https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/firefox-b-tch-to-boss-exten...

Basically a bad word filter. But to GP's point the way things are going don't be surprised if extensions like these are someday set to default on.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#169

How do you discover content on Mastodon? I just intalled Tusky. Didn't have an account and te process of creating one was through some detour and I ended up creating one on qoto.org that I chose randomly. Now I have a feed with pretty random posts and another with even more random posts some in the language I don't know. How can I find anything worth reading there?

First, you check if the instance that you are subscribing to caters to your interests - signing up to a random instance is bound to be useless. Then you can just follow people from the local feed, or something that catches your fancy from the global feed. And if you find a mastodon user from a different instance that you are interested in (maybe in a google search), you can follow them and the system will redirect you so your instance connects you to them.

Re: Tusky has been removed from the Play Store

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people operate on a caricature version of the paradox, as opposed to Popper's more measured original. Most go with something like "If we tolerate people who aren't 100% our version of kumbaya, we'll end up in tyranny", when Popper's original is restricted to people who have stopped listening, and would make their argument with pistols. Most of the time, the paradox citers are closer to the "not listening" camp t…

If Jan. 6 wasn't proof enough that the "election was stolen" crowd has stopped listening and is willing to make their point with arms, I don't know what would suffice for you.

There was not a single firearm present at the riot, Brian Sicknick wasn't killed with a fire extinguisher, and the guy with zip ties found them in the Capitol, was there with his mother, and had no intent to take hostages

What are you talking about?

The Federal Courthouse in Portland has been under siege for months by an idea

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