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Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

puri.sm

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Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#171

Post by m463 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #160
m463 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes and no. I believe GPL 2 might be ok. You can also distribute your own GPL software on the app store, it you dual-license it. But I believe distributing someone else's GPL 3 software is a problem, because as RMS said he realized he had to add freedom zero, the freedom to RUN the software. Remember that Apple stops you from RUNNING software, then gives/sells you the permission.

As far as I'm aware, the issue is that the GPL 2 & 3 stipulate that the freedom to copy, modify and distribute any work based on GPL software should not come with any additional restrictions, and the App Store's terms impose additional restrictions on those freedoms.

I believe for GPL2, you could plausibly provide a link for copies of the source code.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#172

Post by curt15 »

jsperson wrote: post #25
pojntfx wrote: post #5

It is still absolutely fascinating to me how we have arrived at a point where in order to use one's own device properly, one has to ask a US company nicely or be unable to do so - and people pay money for it. On macOS, it is now impossible to distribute a VPN or a virtualization software without permission from Apple. 30% of the world's population would, if their government cut a deal with Apple, be unable to install…

On the other hand, I spend 0% of my time managing iOS devices for my parents and am constantly bombarded with issues from my in-laws with Android phones. I agree that some of Apple's behavior is monopolistic and has some unfortunate, possibly unforeseen consequences, but the end result is pretty nice for the consumers who are willing to accept the compromise.

How many of those issues from your in-laws are due to installing programs from outside Google Play?

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#173

Post by heavyset_go »

m463 wrote: post #171
heavyset_go wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware, the issue is that the GPL 2 & 3 stipulate that the freedom to copy, modify and distribute any work based on GPL software should not come with any additional restrictions, and the App Store's terms impose additional restrictions on those freedoms.

I believe for GPL2, you could plausibly provide a link for copies of the source code.

Binaries are considered work based off of GPL software, so the freedoms to copy, modify and distribute binaries without restrictions apply. GPL3 goes further and clarifies that if software is distributed with additional restrictions that those restrictions can be ignored.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#174

Post by evgen »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #112
Barrin92 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always amazed that in the land of the brave and free butchering general purpose computing machines is supposed to be justified by the fact grandma doesn't install the wrong apps. Funny is this argument always exclusively pops up when it comes to Apple smartphones. Are we supposed to lock every desktop down too because mom and pop installed a wrong toolbar? It's like the reverse 'but think of the children', and pe…

> I'm always amazed that in the land of the brave and free butchering general purpose computing machines is supposed to be justified by the fact grandma doesn't install the wrong apps. This is because we have so much "freedom" that Apple is free to do this. I would argue this is a false freedom, like the freedom to own slaves.

We also have the freedom to ignore people who want the freedom to blow off both feet and demand that everyone else also has this ability. Freedom is choice, but for some reason these people will not just choose another platform and finally STFU. I guess it is just too galling to see other people decide to treat a computer as if it was a hammer with which to accomplish a job and not a way of life around which you organize your self-worth.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#175

Post by comex »

jasonjayr wrote: post #167
vbezhenar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about customers who have found an app in AppStore, wanted to try it out only to find that they need to go through external websites and stuff. Not kind of UX you expect from iPhone.

I expect any device with general purpose computing capabilities to allow me to use those capabilities anyway I want. Especially I'm spending $1000 USD on the thing.

What if the way you want is using the App Store's payment infrastructure?

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#177

Post by Kuinox »

mrzimmerman wrote: post #168
bogwog wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguing these fine points is a waste of time because I feel like people defending this are missing the complete insanity of this situation. Try a different perspective: Let's say Apple wants to sell their devices at "Billy's Electronics", which is a tiny kiosk at a mall with minimal foot traffic. Billy tells Apple that he'll only sell Apple devices at his kiosk if Apple agrees to give him 30% of all revenues Apple ma…

But the opposite is true. Android represents a much, much larger part of the smart phone market and there are a wide variety of devices, manufacturers, and sellers. So the more accurate version of your story is that Apple goes to one of 100 different retailers instead of Billy, which is also what the electronics marketplace is like already.

Except the comparison end there because users can switch shops when they want and it cost them nothing, not the same for a phone.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#178

Post by musicale »

bogwog wrote: post #159
ogre_codes wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet Apple is forcing them to give up 30% of their revenue, because they can. This is a bit disingenuous. Apple isn’t forcing them to give up 30% of their revenue, they are requiring they give users the option to sign up through the App Store. If most of their customers come from outside the App Store, this won’t make much difference to them. If they make less the $1m through the App Store, it will only be 15%. The…

Arguing these fine points is a waste of time because I feel like people defending this are missing the complete insanity of this situation. Try a different perspective: Let's say Apple wants to sell their devices at "Billy's Electronics", which is a tiny kiosk at a mall with minimal foot traffic. Billy tells Apple that he'll only sell Apple devices at his kiosk if Apple agrees to give him 30% of all revenues Apple ma…

> 15% is still too much as long as there are no alternatives

1. Most of the apps in the App Store are games. What are the alternative app stores for other handheld gaming systems like the Nintendo Switch and 3DS?

2. I supposed it's a shame that there are no alternatives to iOS/iPhone besides Android which has an 85% market share.

3. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut... (updated Jan. 2021.)

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#179

Post by brian_herman »

crusty wrote: post #61

Wouldn't the spirit of librem here suggest the solution would just be to make and distribute an open VPN app on iOS and tell your librem one subscribers to install it and have an easy and secure method of downloading a file with your endpoints? Then there is no argument to be made that it's tied to a subscription because anyone could use it for their own or yours or anyone else's that supports it. PIA (and others I'm…

Yeah, the wireguard guys can maintain their app. Why can’t a company like librem?

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#180

Post by wvenable »

mullingitover wrote: post #157
wvenable wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you have a valid developer certificate to sign the app and you have a development provisioning profile and your device is registered as a test device. For that you need to be registered as an iPhone Developer Program member ($99). And you have to constantly renew your profile.

> For that you need to be registered as an iPhone Developer Program member ($99) Again, simply not true. You don't need a paid developer license for local installs, and this has been the case for a very long time.

But then the app only works on your device for 7 days.
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