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Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

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Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#131

Post by maccard »

Barrin92 wrote: post #87
jsperson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I spend 0% of my time managing iOS devices for my parents and am constantly bombarded with issues from my in-laws with Android phones. I agree that some of Apple's behavior is monopolistic and has some unfortunate, possibly unforeseen consequences, but the end result is pretty nice for the consumers who are willing to accept the compromise.

I'm always amazed that in the land of the brave and free butchering general purpose computing machines is supposed to be justified by the fact grandma doesn't install the wrong apps. Funny is this argument always exclusively pops up when it comes to Apple smartphones. Are we supposed to lock every desktop down too because mom and pop installed a wrong toolbar? It's like the reverse 'but think of the children', and pe…

I bought my dad a chromebook 2 years ago, because it's the most locked down laptop form factor I could find. My tech support calls have dropped from monthly (yes, monthly) to once. Before it was "I can't find my email" (whatever windows' default url handler for mail:foo@bar wasn't logged into his account) or "office isn't working" (that's a zip file, not a document), or " every time I try to run X it does Y" (the final straw was windows defender stopped him from opening a docx file because it came from an untrusted source, which was his GP/doctor who had self hosted mail bring flagged as spam by Hotmail). Bought a chromebook, moved him to google sheets and google docs, and haven't had a call since. If there was a locked in, $200 phone that wasn't apple that I could buy for him that would have the same effect, I would.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#132

Post by Tushon »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #127
ehutch79 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are absolutely controls you can turn on for macs that will do that. I have locked down employees computers because they couldn't be trusted.

I'm always curious about this attitude. Why did you employ them if you felt you couldn't trust them?

People being good at anything else (let's say, accounting) is not correlated with safe/smart computer use habits. If you can prevent a lot of turmoil by not letting them install arbitrary programs and still keep them happy and working well on their main role, why get rid of an otherwise good employee?

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#133

Post by heavyset_go »

vbezhenar wrote: post #48
bogwog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also leaving out that the VPN is just one part of the larger "Librem One" subscription package. It's something customers discover through Librem's marketing, buy from Librem on Librem's website not using Apple's payment/account systems, and not exclusive to Apple platforms in any way. Yet Apple is forcing them to give up 30% of their revenue, because they can.

What about customers who have found an app in AppStore, wanted to try it out only to find that they need to go through external websites and stuff. Not kind of UX you expect from iPhone.

Sounds like rent-seeking from a company that has literally banned all mobile app distribution competition on their platform.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#134

Post by spideymans »

random5634 wrote: post #68
spideymans wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy t…

Apple has focused pretty heavily on the user experience, developers be damned. I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere). They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios. The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice…

>ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere

I can't lie. When I see companies like Match Group complaining that iOS policies prevent them from surreptitiously locking their "customers" into subscriptions[0], I can't help but chuckle. This is precisely why I bought an iPhone.

0: https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-af...

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#135

Post by vagrantJin »

jsperson wrote: post #25
pojntfx wrote: post #5

It is still absolutely fascinating to me how we have arrived at a point where in order to use one's own device properly, one has to ask a US company nicely or be unable to do so - and people pay money for it. On macOS, it is now impossible to distribute a VPN or a virtualization software without permission from Apple. 30% of the world's population would, if their government cut a deal with Apple, be unable to install…

On the other hand, I spend 0% of my time managing iOS devices for my parents and am constantly bombarded with issues from my in-laws with Android phones. I agree that some of Apple's behavior is monopolistic and has some unfortunate, possibly unforeseen consequences, but the end result is pretty nice for the consumers who are willing to accept the compromise.

This is an argument. My elderly parents are stupid argument. for why you should buy iOS. No- its not signalling at all.

iOS is just as confusing as Android. Its a matter of which one you use first or regularly. Just as Linux is confusing to non-linux users.

Also. Android works on the dodgiest mobile hardware available to mankind. Something not a lot of HN users seem to know - from tractors in farms to research equipment in the arctic. I dont know about space, but if we are going to use a modern OS on space craft - I'm willing to bet it will be an android fork.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#136

Post by stock_toaster »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #35
spijdar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it seems like it has already been reset, or performed some kind of major OS update, which seems unlikely. In lieu of itunes or mac, you could also take it to an apple store I believe.

It was just sitting around hooked up to a charger while I was away.

Did it have auto-updates enabled? It might have just been doing what it had been told, and updated itself at some point.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#137

Post by wrycoder »

eropple wrote: post #110
spideymans wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy t…

I agree with your general point, but I raised my eyebrows at this: > So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month Out of curiosity, I went incognito (as I'm an NYT subscriber) and clicked that banner just now, and it says it's $1/week for a year, not a month ($4.25/week afterwards). I'm pretty…

Wall Street Journal after teaser is $468 per year.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#138

Post by heavyset_go »

imwillofficial wrote: post #81
m-p-3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of letting the toll take 30% on the merchandise on each deliveries on the ONLY road available on their platform. They already pay their Apple Developer Program yearly membership fees. If Apples deem this isn't enough, then they should raise the cost to properly take that into account.

This is terrible business advice. Look how wildly successful their model is. It’s the example of how other app stores run their businesses.

Standard Oil and Microsoft in the 90's/00's were both wildly successful, too, yet they still engaged in anti-competitive behavior to the detriment of the market and consumers alike.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#139

Post by mullingitover »

kmeisthax wrote: post #116
mullingitover wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true at all - you can modify the source code from open source apps, build, and install on your own device without asking permission from Apple or paying a fee for a developer license. The only control Apple has is over app distribution.

Yes, but if you take the software from the App Store, you are bound by App Store TOS. The TOS supercedes any Free Software rights you may have had from the license; and prohibits you from redistributing the software, which trips GPL's no-further-restrictions clause. Of course, you can take both sets of terms for the App Store and a self-compiled version, and you can then distribute modifications to the source code of…

> In practice, this means you cannot actually put GPL applications on iOS unless you get a CLA from every developer on the project.

Again, simply not true. If you obtain the source code, build, and run your own iOS apps on your own device you have no issues with GPL compliance. Honestly I'm disappointed that more open source projects don't go this route. Blender could easily provide an xcode project that anyone can build and run on their device outside the app store. They choose not to, but there's nothing stopping them.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#140

Post by heavyset_go »

mullingitover wrote: post #69
crazypython wrote: post #31

Any software distributed on the App Store immediately becomes nonfree software. The free software definition is linked to the end-user's freedom to modify the programs on his computers, not whether a developer can fork it. Specifically, distribution on the app store denies "The freedom to... change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1)."

Not true at all - you can modify the source code from open source apps, build, and install on your own device without asking permission from Apple or paying a fee for a developer license. The only control Apple has is over app distribution.

Apple actively bans GPL software from the App Store because the GPL precludes distribution of GPL apps under the App Store's terms.

Distribution under the App Store's terms is a GPL violation itself.

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