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How Amazon Crushes Unions

nytimes.com

181–190 of 261 posts

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, if any of the chargers or cords I have received from Amazon are counterfeit, they're good enough counterfeits that I don't care. My iPhone, iPad, and MBP all charge just fine, still have perfectly fine working batteries, have never had any issues with the electronics, and nothing has caught on fire after years of use. The headphones I've bought from Amazon sound great and have given me no issues. The lig…

they're good enough counterfeits that I don't care Yet. When one burns down your house, you'll care. Most people try to head off possibilities like that, rather can just shrug their shoulders and say, "But I saved three dollars!"

If at any point I see any evidence or warning that the products I purchase from Amazon cause any material amount of risk to my person or property, I'll reevaluate. In fact, there definitely are some things that I prefer to buy outside of Amazon for such reasons, like climbing gear or medicine.

But as for stuff like chargers, I've had more experience that the easily-frayed genuine Apple Lightning cables, or the classic exploding Samsung phones, are more of an electrical fire risk than anything I've bought from Amazon, counterfeit or not.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#182
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate where do you buy things online from? I want to move away from Amazon, but it's also exhausting to sort through multiple websites for a product, their shipping fees, and make decisions.

Walmart and Target have improved their web experience a lot, but you still need to avoid the 3rd party sellers there. If you know the brand and the product, ordering direct also works. I also kind of enjoy shopping irl more since it gets me out of the house and basically everything else is closed due to the Rona. I've heard costco has a great 2 hour delivery experience but I don't have a membership. The effect of Ama…

The effect of Amazon is that at least for now, there's never been a better time to order things online in general

This is so true.

When I first started shopping online, it used to take ten days to two weeks to get stuff. Amazon changed that.

Then I remember that before the internet, "Please wait four to six weeks for delivery" was so normal that it was a catch phrase.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#183
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society does not owe you a high salary for your low-skilled job with plenty of competition. We tried it - it was called Communism and the society went broke while the workers went hungry. It was worst for both.

> Society does not owe you a high salary for your low-skilled job with plenty of competition. We tried it - it was called Communism and the society went broke while the workers went hungry. It was worst for both. I didn't say any of that. I was commenting on the assertion that "today's situation favours the employee in most fields". Which is demonstrably untrue for many people. And I was also implicitly asserting tha…

Creating those decent conditions costs money, implying in effect a higher reward, even if not in salary form.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#184
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would mean to ignore the weakest in society (maybe lay them off?) for the benefit of a few at the top. As though almost all the unprecedented levels of pandemic relief in the US haven’t gone to anything but people that need relief.

A lot of the early pandemic relief went to large corporations looking for cheap loans.

Fortunately, a lot of them were publicly shamed into giving it back.

Meanwhile, hundreds of billions of dollars went to people making less than $75,000 a year. Seems like a good chunk of the relief went to those most likely to need it.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#185
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those same "bad laws" are why you have a 5-day work week, your retirement plan, overtime (if you are hourly), safe working conditions, sick leave. The list goes on. If you think you'd like to go back before the time when unions didn't exist, let me direct you to the work of photographer Lewis Hine

Unions have done their job. They were needed when Pinkertons beat up people trying to open new stores in a company town, etc. Ironically, flagging a post without bad content is just the sort of passive aggressive crap you have to put up with in a union.

> They were needed when Pinkertons beat up people trying to open new stores in a company town, etc.

BTW, Amazon is still using Pinkertons to repress unionization attempts[0]. Things haven't changed that much after all.

- [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-agency-spie...

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#186

Stuff like this always comes to mind when the media celebrates the richest people in the world. This often comes at the expense of low level employees who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich. And the worse they treat these employees the more the rich guys get celebrated. That’s why the slogan “run the government like a business” doesn’t work. It would mean to ignore the weakest in socie…

> who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich If it's underpaid, why do it? If you do it, what makes it "under" paid? By taking the job, you confirm the wage is right.

By taking the job, you confirm the wage is right.

I see you've never been poor. I have. Sometimes you take any job, no matter the wage, just to keep the wolves at bay and food on the table.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#187

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

I know I shouldn't, but this is beautiful. You've taken every low-understanding drunk-uncle anti-union take and have written some true troll poetry.

This historical perspective is so shallow, and your understanding of the motivation of those involved is so one sided that it's hard to think of anything that might let some light in.

I'll try. Years ago Business owners so mistreated their workers that the workers decided to form unions. This was not easy, as nobody was really on the side of the workers. So it made it easy to bash their heads in. It took many years of many people risking and losing their lives and livelihoods until public support turned towards the strikers. Finally places like Ford had to negotiate rather than curbstomp[1].

This was a win. Rather than relying on the arbitrary benevolence of various ownerships, we codified the 40 hour workweek, overtime, vacation days and sick leave among other things.

Then WWII happened, and the US was the only industrialized nation that was left unscathed. That meant the world wanted to buy our products because for the most part, we were the only ones making products at all. This is the beginning and end of a lot of Americans understanding of our economy and our place in the world. It's why Reagan and Trump were successful with the "Let's / Make America Great Again" mantra.

Because we decided to kill ourselves to be anti-communist, we decided to have very favorable trade policies for places we were formerly at war with, like Japan. That meant we rolled out the red carpet for those cheap little imports. Unions had nothing to do with this.

US automakers did not take the foreign competition seriously. They were too busy trying to defend leaded gasoline and trying to destroy Ralph Nader's reputation because he suggested we have seatbelts. Unions had nothing to do with this either.

The 70's happened. The previously decimated world economies were rebuilt and ready to compete. Americans started to buy more stuff from overseas. Oil became scarce. Stupid self-owns by the US Auto manufacturers gave American cars a reputation for being shit. For one thing, they were so damn heavy that components would break faster. A heavy V8 has more stuff to fail than a little inline four. Again, Unions were not the ones designing the cars.

No one in Detroit blames the Unions. Except maybe historically illiterate managers and engineers. I know, I used carry their golf clubs and clean their boats. Everyone else typically blames NAFTA, consumers buying imports, and the management/ownership of the Big 3.

But here we are. Big companies can outsource. Private Equity can pillage. Agriculture and the meat industry can hire migrant workers with little impediment. But unions are bad because once in awhile a manager has to wait because of work-rules. Or every once in awhile a steward will get busted for corruption. Or "there's this guy who shows up drunk and they can't fire him." I know a drunk incompetent guy who can't get fired too. He makes $500k and is a nephew of a billionaire. Every charge in a unions-are-bad screed can usually be turned around right back at the management/ownership class.

...

This article was about the distribution side of Amazon. Not tech. That being said, I program for a living. I get paid pretty well because I don't move fast and I don't break things. Tech professionals need at least a professional guild. But, they think they are special so they will squander the era when they actually have organizing power.

...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Overpass

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#188
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is a blatant lie that keeps being repeated without thought. The reason people work at amazon warehouses is because they don't have other choice. For many there simply are no other jobs that pay or treat you better.

Then the alternative was better education and more focus during one's formative years. It's not my fault the kids skipping class, having fun and making jokes during teacher's lessons are now paid less than me. Society offers plenty of opportunities but not to people who did noting to prepare themselves to take advantage of them.

It's not my fault the kids skipping class, having fun and making jokes during teacher's lessons are now paid less than me.

If that's how you think people become poor and desperate, I can only surmise that you've never had anything bad happen to you ever.

Never got sick. Never had a family member hurt. Never been the victim of crime. Never fallen on a wet floor. Never had a house fire. Never had your car break down. You always had plenty of food, plenty of money, plenty of infrastructure near you. Never had to worry about the condition of your home, or whether you'd even have a home tomorrow. Someone else paid for your education, your transportation, your entire life when you were growing up.

Consider yourself blessed. And please never run for office.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#189
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the early pandemic relief went to large corporations looking for cheap loans.

Fortunately, a lot of them were publicly shamed into giving it back. Meanwhile, hundreds of billions of dollars went to people making less than $75,000 a year. Seems like a good chunk of the relief went to those most likely to need it.

The bills passed claim they're for "relief", but if you examine the contents much of the spending doesn't even occur this year.

> Only about 5 percent of that total is funding public health efforts related to the pandemic, according to the nonpartisan number crunchers at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB).

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most stuff you can buy on Amazon these days is the same garbage that is sold on Wish but you pay ~25-50% more for it to come within a couple of days In my experience, I get most stuff for the same price from other retailers on Amazon, but with fast shipping and the peace of mind that I can return them easily.

If you're buying from Amazon, you're almost definitely getting comingled inventory - which means even the official retailer themselves can't guarantee it's a genuine product. Your point still stands about easy returns, although personally I've noticed Amazon adding a lot more friction when I have a problem in the past year or so. https://www.redpoints.com/blog/amazon-commingled-inventory-m...

yeah but if they are counterfeit, I just return them
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