How Amazon Crushes Unions • Hacker News Board

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#41

Post by psychlops » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

TurningCanadian wrote: post #23

glasss wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few small business owners that have said if their staff unionized they would just close the business. These aren't bad bosses or people who don't know how to run a business. They just know if their staff unionized and the rest of their industry didn't, they wouldn't be able to compete on price or keep the necessary number of staff. I think it's easier to pick on Amazon or bezos than it is to deal with the po…

It's in the union's interest to keep the company alive too.

In my experience, the union's interest is more in keeping the union alive.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#42

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

spaetzleesser wrote: post #9

Stuff like this always comes to mind when the media celebrates the richest people in the world. This often comes at the expense of low level employees who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich. And the worse they treat these employees the more the rich guys get celebrated. That’s why the slogan “run the government like a business” doesn’t work. It would mean to ignore the weakest in socie…

> who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich

If it's underpaid, why do it? If you do it, what makes it "under" paid?

By taking the job, you confirm the wage is right.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#43

Post by donovanian » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

spaetzleesser wrote: post #9

Stuff like this always comes to mind when the media celebrates the richest people in the world. This often comes at the expense of low level employees who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich. And the worse they treat these employees the more the rich guys get celebrated. That’s why the slogan “run the government like a business” doesn’t work. It would mean to ignore the weakest in socie…

> It would mean to ignore the weakest in society (maybe lay them off?) for the benefit of a few at the top.

As though almost all the unprecedented levels of pandemic relief in the US haven’t gone to anything but people that need relief.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#44

Post by cestith » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

jdasdf wrote: post #11

I don't get it, why do workers need to vote in order to start/join a union? Why would the company care if they do join a union? Can't they simply refuse to negotiate with the union?

One person can join a union. They might, depending on the union, get extra insurance or legal representation or some other benefit not tied to negotiation with the employer. A one-person strike is generally considered a resignation, though. One core function of a union is as a collective bargaining group. It's difficult to collectively bargain when your collection is one person.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#45

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

Fortunely crushing unions is not a legal in many countries.

As for everyone that gives money to Amazon, and praises their FOSS offerings, this is what evil companies do in practice.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#46

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

jdasdf wrote: post #26

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your Right to Form a Union "Not represented by a union, but want to be? If a majority of workers wants to form a union, they can select a union in one of two ways: If at least 30% of workers sign cards or a petition saying they want a union, the NLRB will conduct an election. If a majority of those who vote choose the union, the NLRB will certify the union as your representative for collective bargaining. An electio…

> Once a union has been certified or recognized, the employer is required to bargain over your terms and conditions of employment with your union representative. Oh. So once again bad laws cause the whole problem...

Those same "bad laws" are why you have a 5-day work week, your retirement plan, overtime (if you are hourly), safe working conditions, sick leave. The list goes on. If you think you'd like to go back before the time when unions didn't exist, let me direct you to the work of photographer Lewis Hine

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#47

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

andrew_ wrote: post #27

dybber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience with unions seems very limited, please read about unions in countries where the system isn't broken.

Unfortunately we're discussing unions forming in a country where there are a lot of issues with dysfunctional unions, and some less than stellar, high-profile history. It will be impossible to dismiss that when having the discussion when the context is within the United States.

Which is really sad, given that it was one of the countries that it was on their genesis.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#48

Post by jtdev » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

musingsole wrote: post #33

jtdev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made the same changes in recent months and agree that it's improved my consumer experience significantly. I didn't realize just how much time and energy I was spending sorting through cheap Chinese made junk and counterfeit garbage on Amazon trying to find quality products. In terms of cloud providers: the major three (Azure, GCloud, AWS) seem to be cut from the same cloth... maybe IBM or Oracle cloud are better…

Turning to IBM or Oracle for moral reasons is about the funniest thing I've read in a long time. One enabled the holocaust and the other made 90s-era Microsoft seem downright communist.

Amazon is doing some rather creepy stuff with the CIA [0]. Can you elaborate on what Oracle did that was so bad? Is charging for software and enforcing license terms somehow worse than what Amazon, Microsoft, Google, etc. are doing?

[0]https://www.theregister.com/2018/05/22/aclu_amazon_aws_rekog...

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#49

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

pibechorro wrote: post #14

Good. Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators and its harmful for everyone. Look no further than public school teachers, getting paid, refuse to work. Meanwhile private school teachers have been working.. if you hate working at Amazon, quit.

> Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators

Oh? Show me one major regulatory body in the US that has as many union leaders running it as it does leaders from the industries it regulates.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#50

Post by glasss » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

cratermoon wrote: post #39

glasss wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few small business owners that have said if their staff unionized they would just close the business. These aren't bad bosses or people who don't know how to run a business. They just know if their staff unionized and the rest of their industry didn't, they wouldn't be able to compete on price or keep the necessary number of staff. I think it's easier to pick on Amazon or bezos than it is to deal with the po…

> people who don't know how to run a business I submit that if business can't exist without a government subsidy that allows them to pay their employees less than a living wage, then the people running the business do not , in fact, know how to run it.

I agree, but I know first hand that the businesses I'm referring to pay a minimum salary of $45K and the vast majority of employees are above $55K. These businesses are IT service providers, providing their services to other small or medium businesses. The clients in this industry are very price conscious and wouldn't care that the staff unionized at one company, they wouldn't be able to justify a significant price increase for the same services / value.