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Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

puri.sm

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Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#61

Post by crusty »

Wouldn't the spirit of librem here suggest the solution would just be to make and distribute an open VPN app on iOS and tell your librem one subscribers to install it and have an easy and secure method of downloading a file with your endpoints? Then there is no argument to be made that it's tied to a subscription because anyone could use it for their own or yours or anyone else's that supports it.

PIA (and others I'm sure)offers a zip of .ovpn files for their endpoints that Linux users can import to use with openVPN without using their app.

Obviously, this is a proposed solution to having the app on iOS, no dealing with Apple's access monopoly.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#62

Post by spideymans »

random5634 wrote: post #49
Jyaif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system?

This is one of the major features yes. On iOS apps are totally prohibited from their own payment flows in app / on platform - it's completely banned. This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas. Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!) They have…

>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store.

I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy to get bitten by subscription scams, even from companies that appear legitimate.

The lack of regulation on this matter just leaves Apple with justification to act as a payment gatekeeper.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#63

Post by MikeUt »

jsperson wrote: post #25
pojntfx wrote: post #5

It is still absolutely fascinating to me how we have arrived at a point where in order to use one's own device properly, one has to ask a US company nicely or be unable to do so - and people pay money for it. On macOS, it is now impossible to distribute a VPN or a virtualization software without permission from Apple. 30% of the world's population would, if their government cut a deal with Apple, be unable to install…

On the other hand, I spend 0% of my time managing iOS devices for my parents and am constantly bombarded with issues from my in-laws with Android phones. I agree that some of Apple's behavior is monopolistic and has some unfortunate, possibly unforeseen consequences, but the end result is pretty nice for the consumers who are willing to accept the compromise.

> compromise

This is not an inherent compromise. iPhones could be just as safe and issue-free if they were rootable, just as cars don't need hoods welded shut to prevent their owners from messing with the engine. If you find the compromise acceptable, simply don't root your phone.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#64

Post by moistbar »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #53
moistbar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting take on "this non-password-protected, non-LTE iPad that I do own abruptly stopped letting me look at data I was able to see recently."

It was on the cell network, but it was purchased outright, not under contract. It does sound like the other commenter's theory that the SIM has "gone bad" may be true, but I had no idea this could happen, and I don't see how that makes it any more valid.

It doesn't make it valid at all. I can still access my Android phone without a SIM card, and in fact I used one on nothing but Wifi as my "landline" for quite a while. The only thing that should break when you remove or damage a SIM card is your ability to connect to a cell network.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#65

Post by forgotmypw17 »

jsperson wrote: post #25
pojntfx wrote: post #5

It is still absolutely fascinating to me how we have arrived at a point where in order to use one's own device properly, one has to ask a US company nicely or be unable to do so - and people pay money for it. On macOS, it is now impossible to distribute a VPN or a virtualization software without permission from Apple. 30% of the world's population would, if their government cut a deal with Apple, be unable to install…

On the other hand, I spend 0% of my time managing iOS devices for my parents and am constantly bombarded with issues from my in-laws with Android phones. I agree that some of Apple's behavior is monopolistic and has some unfortunate, possibly unforeseen consequences, but the end result is pretty nice for the consumers who are willing to accept the compromise.

I followed this road until the device was locked. Make sure you have a backup of stuff like photos and emails which is not Apple-managed.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#66

Post by tgragnato »

nucleardog wrote: post #34
LeoPanthera wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On macOS, it is now impossible to distribute a VPN or a virtualization software without permission from Apple. Citation needed? I don't believe this is true. Tunnelblick and qemu both exist on macOS independently of Apple's approval.

Also would like a citation. Onboarding mac users at work is "here's your .ovpn file, go install Tunnelblick and import it, start connection, and go".

Tunnelblick uses OpenVPN under the hood, which means it's using a TUN/TAP virtual NIC.

LeoPantera is referring to the new way of creating VPNs in macOS and iOS, the Network Extension framework. You need an entitlement to develop with that framework, and sideloading is not possible.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/en...

I have no idea if Apple is committed to support tun/tap in the future, but I doubt.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#67

Post by [deleted] »

random5634 wrote: post #49
Jyaif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system?

This is one of the major features yes. On iOS apps are totally prohibited from their own payment flows in app / on platform - it's completely banned. This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas. Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!) They have…

[deleted]

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#68

Post by random5634 »

spideymans wrote: post #62
random5634 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the major features yes. On iOS apps are totally prohibited from their own payment flows in app / on platform - it's completely banned. This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas. Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!) They have…

>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy t…

Apple has focused pretty heavily on the user experience, developers be damned.

I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere).

They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios.

The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice is both annoying an ineffective against bad actors. On iOS, I decline a permission, and it's done.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#69

Post by mullingitover »

crazypython wrote: post #31

Any software distributed on the App Store immediately becomes nonfree software. The free software definition is linked to the end-user's freedom to modify the programs on his computers, not whether a developer can fork it. Specifically, distribution on the app store denies "The freedom to... change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1)."

Not true at all - you can modify the source code from open source apps, build, and install on your own device without asking permission from Apple or paying a fee for a developer license. The only control Apple has is over app distribution.

Re: Librem Tunnel Is Leaving iOS

#70

Post by [deleted] »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #56
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's got to be a carrier thing. iPads do not "require activation," and many iPads are wifi-only. I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but I am extremely skeptical it is a problem caused by Big Bad Evil Apple doing Big Bad Evil things.

How do you figure this problem is not caused by Apple, when I bought the iPad outright from Apple and only used the carrier for monthly-paid network access?

[deleted]
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