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The Waste of Daylight

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Re: The Waste of Daylight

#181

Post by da_big_ghey »

richrichardsson wrote: post #159
bloak wrote: post #151

As I see it, in the summer there's plenty of daylight so it doesn't matter very much how you set your clock, but in the winter it does matter: children would be cycling to school in the dark if you moved the clocks forward (and they'd be cycling back from school in the dark if you moved the clocks back). Therefore, if you want to abolish the clock changes, which seems like an excellent idea to me, the safe and conser…

> the safe and conservative way to do that is to use today's winter time all year round What are the points that lead you to this conclusion? Personally I'd prefer if DST was abolished by staying on Summer Time permanently, as I dislike the lack of light in the evening, and couldn't care less about the dark mornings, but mine is a purely selfish reasoning.

Same way, I selfish want normal time. No daylight delay. Dislike one more hour after arising before sun appearing. Hate sit in dark fore much time. So I am vote opposing any daylight delay and only fore normal time all time. Fortunate on my arguments can support from studies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26464461

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#182

Post by DC1350 »

ogre_codes wrote: post #81
rhino369 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system was originally based on noon, not midnight. I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I don't know anyone who plans their day based on when the sun rose. You'd have 3+ hour swings in what time meant from December to June. Seems worse than even daylight savings time.

> I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I do regular trips in the back of beyond. The first day everyone is up until 10-11 O'Clock in front of the camp fire hanging around with a beer. By the third day, everyone is up at dawn and asleep at 8 O'Clock. Humans absolutely rise with the sun naturally. We've just isolated ourselves from the natural environmen…

Where do you live? I would be awake for only 8 hours a day if I followed this in the middle of winter.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#183

Post by TeMPOraL »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #150
derefr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want, bankers hours? Presumably, they want their schedule moved around so they can see what they're doing. There's no reason that the clock itself needs to change for that, though. Just unions forcing employers into a "9-5 in summer, 10-6 in winter" schedule would work fine.

Lights exist, though. I'm in Norway: Winter days are short where I*m at. As in, sun up around 10 and down before 3pm. (The sun sets for a few hours in the summer, but I can read outside at night in June). They do construction in the winter here. And honestly, construction companies in Indiana used to close during the darkest months - I knew many that would get unemployment for that time period.

> Lights exist, though.

And pretty powerful ones, too. I remember the time when we had a very light winter and construction work didn't stop for that season. A building some 100 meters from my grandparents was being finished, a lot of roof work was happening. They had a light on that roof - when they turned it on in the middle of the night, my grandfather's room was lit as if it was just an overcast afternoon. I can only imagine that for the workers there, it felt like high noon on a cloudless summer day.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#184

Post by bluefirebrand »

vishnugupta wrote: post #109
mantas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. Source: wife is a teacher. Effect on adults is less pronounced, but it still puts a strain on us to shift our schedule by an hour. ... yet for what? Original reasons why this practice was started barely apply today. Light bulbs are efficient and we waste much more electricity in other ways. Let alone that many offices are lit up all day an…

> Turning clocks back is terrible for kids. A week of schooling is next to lost. FWIW, my kids (~8yo, ~5yo) didn't even notice the time shift in the Netherlands let alone be affected by it. For adults, (me and my wife), it was a mild surprise. We first suspected that clock had gone bonkers only for me to realise the DST change. We were moving to a DST country from a non-DST one so the net effect for us was amusing, a…

> Maybe it's a big enough of disruption in the North America?

It's a huge disruption everywhere.

www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#185

Post by mrfusion »

I support full time DST but ...

Isn’t it weird to think That the Vast majority Of people are so powerless over their own schedules that they need nationwide legislation to do what they want and enjoy their evenings?

I don’t have a point. It’s just kind of a funny thing to think about.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#186

Post by mrfusion »

bloak wrote: post #151

As I see it, in the summer there's plenty of daylight so it doesn't matter very much how you set your clock, but in the winter it does matter: children would be cycling to school in the dark if you moved the clocks forward (and they'd be cycling back from school in the dark if you moved the clocks back). Therefore, if you want to abolish the clock changes, which seems like an excellent idea to me, the safe and conser…

It seems like the children going to school in the dark is the main counterargument. Could schools just start later in the winter or have reduced hours?

Or could we add street lighting?

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#187

Post by Philadelphia »

dahart wrote: post #96
Philadelphia wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article makes very clear, the problem isn’t the change, but DST not aligning with circadian rhythms. DST is fundamentally hostile to human health. The entire second half of the article, starting just before the section labeled “Time Out of Time,” goes into the science on this. Conclusions: “‘It’s not one hour twice a year. It’s a misalignment of our biologic clocks for eight months of the year,’ says Beth Ann…

> It’s a misalignment of our biological clocks for eight months of the year Hahaha, that’s not a thing. First of all, entrainment happens in a matter of days ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrainment_(chronobiology) ). This is why you can move across the country, or just fly to Europe for a vacation, and be on the new schedule after just a few nights there. Nobody has jet lag for eight months when flying to the oth…

Sleep experts who have education in the area and study for a living seem to overwhelmingly disagree with what you're saying. There is extensive discussion of the issues in the linked article, with inline links to sources.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#188

Post by dschuler »

throw0101a wrote: post #157
hourislate wrote: post #23

I would vote for any Presidential Candidate and House Representative regardless of party on the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else.

> […] the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. Which goes against the current scientific/medical consensus on the issue: > As an international organization of scientists dedicated to studying circadian and other biological rhythms, the Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) engaged experts in the field to write a Position Paper on the consequences of choosing to live on DST or Standard Tim…

Based on the first link:

"Less than 200 years ago, humans organized their daily routines by the sun clock ... which was in synchrony with their body clock. Now, most of us ... use electric light at night... these new conditions challenge our health and can cause safety problems, [and] ... become even worse under Daylight Saving Time (DST)".

It seems like most people would agree that living in synchrony to the solar day is better for us, but I would think that DST would help with that when the sun starts to rise around 6AM and many people aren't awake yet.

Why would eliminating DST help?

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#189

Post by arethuza »

skrebbel wrote: post #176
8fingerlouie wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scandinavian here, i'll pass :) Most of June the sun rises from 4:30 to 4:50, and it's not until late august it rises around 6am again. Sunset is between 9pm and 10pm, civil twilight lasts until 3:42am, and the sun never goes below 12 degrees. From November to February it doesn't rise until 8am. (and sets around 4pm, astronomical twilight around 6pm) We have a large roof window that allows morning sunlight to enter o…

My theory is that most people who write on HN about waking up at sunrise (it's a common theme) live in the US, much of which is substantially closer to the equator than Northern and Central Europe. Nice mild weather with sane sunrise/sunset times all year round is definitely on the list of things I envy about the SF Bay Area.

But they miss the glorious long summer evenings we get further north!

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#190

Post by calvano915 »

tzs wrote: post #92
mumblemumble wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My single biggest frustration with excessive use of outdoor illumination at night is that it means I have to use blackout curtains to have a dark bedroom at night. Without that, there would be absolutely no reason to even think about a technological solution for waking up with the sun.

OT: I have a tip for blackout curtains. There are expensive ones that do a really good job of blocking light, and inexpensive ones that let some light through. Walmart's house brand, Mainstays, is the later. They block a decent amount of light, but some will get through. I found that if you use blackout curtains with grommets, like the Mainstays [1], you can simply double them up. Set one panel on top of another with…

Or just use an eye mask?
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