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Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

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Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#61

Post by Mindwipe »

tw04 wrote: post #21
Mindwipe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix priced themselves artificially low to grow, based on debt. That set unrealistic consumer expectat…

>Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005... they may not have grown as quickly, but I'd need some data to back up the claim they'd be bankrupt without billions in investment. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross... >but Netflix's terms literally…

> Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005..

Only because you're allowed to not count issuing junk bonds towards your profitability. Netflix only started having cash positive quarters this year, and has fifteen billion dollars in debt, generally going up by four billion dollars a year.

Netflix literally could not have afforded the interest on those junk bonds as a private company. It was only able to borrow so cheaply on the promise of it's growth.

(And this year is unusually friendly to them due to Covid, I do not think they are suddenly actually profitable, they just didn't spend nearly as much as normal.)

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#62

Post by whatok »

tw04 wrote: post #21
Mindwipe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix priced themselves artificially low to grow, based on debt. That set unrealistic consumer expectat…

>Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005... they may not have grown as quickly, but I'd need some data to back up the claim they'd be bankrupt without billions in investment. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross... >but Netflix's terms literally…

Netflix would not remotely resemble its current form and likely would have been acquired years ago if they did not pivot to their own content. Switching to their own content required and still requires huge amounts of money; est. 17bn last year[0]. Additionally, the gross profit number is a flawed number for many reasons; try looking at operating or net income or anything farther down the income statement from basic revenue. Netflix has no option but to finance content spend with debt as they do not generate enough FCF to cover content spend and will quickly fall behind competitors if they don't.

[0] https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-will-probably-spend-19-bi...

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#63

Post by jjk166 »

chucky wrote: post #10

As part of a single person household it feels weird that there is a norm that you are allowed to share logins "within your household". Effectively this means people in the same household are paying a lower price than others - so people living in single households are effectively subsidizing that usage by paying more per person.

And three roommates splitting rent pay less than the person who lives in a three bedroom apartment alone.

If it really bothers you, get a few people to pay you a few bucks to be included in your "household" and use your netflix account with you the same way that apartment owner sublets the extra rooms.

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#64

Post by Mindwipe »

lol123456789 wrote: post #35

"The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates." - Gaben

This is the same Gaben who runs a store with a bunch of DRM on it that has a variety of mechanisms to prevent account sharing yeah?

It's a nice soundbite, but even he doesn't believe it.

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#65

Post by moate »

mrits wrote: post #20
tw04 wrote: post #4

I think this is going to have the exact opposite effect of what they're going for. I know plenty of people who split the cost of an account because they can't justify the full price. The continual price hikes, and now this? I'm sure the bean counters have done the math and they'll come out ahead, but losing content + raising prices and now killing off people sharing accounts is just a bad look. This is yet another ca…

If you look at who their competition is I would think they have a long ways to go before being considered the bad guys

I am infinitely happier with my stream service mix vs my last cable subscription. And if you consider their competition other streaming services, Netflix is already the 800lb gorilla in the room. It's why you saw things like CBS+ get rolled into Paramount, or HBO up their ante by bundling a ton of other brands content into HBOMAX. Not enough people want a single channel offering, even for $3.99.

Personally, I have to agree with you that they have a long way to go before I'm going to be as annoyed with them as I am with many of my other service providers (cell, cable, ISP)

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#66

Post by chucky »

jjk166 wrote: post #63
chucky wrote: post #10

As part of a single person household it feels weird that there is a norm that you are allowed to share logins "within your household". Effectively this means people in the same household are paying a lower price than others - so people living in single households are effectively subsidizing that usage by paying more per person.

And three roommates splitting rent pay less than the person who lives in a three bedroom apartment alone. If it really bothers you, get a few people to pay you a few bucks to be included in your "household" and use your netflix account with you the same way that apartment owner sublets the extra rooms.

>If it really bothers you, get a few people to pay you a few bucks to be included in your "household" and use your netflix account with you the same way that apartment owner sublets the extra rooms.

But I can't do that - this is exactly what the article is saying Netflix is now starting to take action against, and it is already against their TOS.

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#67

Post by BrandonSmith »

4ggr0 wrote: post #13

The Netflix I pay for is currently used by: Me, Mom, Dad, Grandparents, GF, GFs Mom. Other than myself and my GF, most of the people on this list watch something on Netflix every couple of months, when I or someone/something else recommend them a movie or show. I don't want them to use my profile, because we then obviously can't watch the same things, and it'll break my recommendations. I get why Netflix wants to spl…

> Don't really know what I should think about this to be honest...

All subscription services must account for some form of average use. High usage customers are offset by low usage. Thus, it is likely with so many people on your account that others are subsidizing your account's usage.

Nevertheless, I don't think Netflix cares about your low usage family members, like your grandmother. They care about your high usage family and want to get them in their own account.

Netflix already has subscription tiers that varies the number of screens that can simultaneously watch or device downloads. Perhaps Netflix could help honest people be honest by creating tiers with modest increases for different households. Maybe $5 for each additional household?

I am sure they have discussed and don't yet have a great way of enforcing such. One option could be true "sub-accounts" where the sub-account pays for the bump of $5 with a credit card that must be tied to a different address?

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#68

Post by 4ggr0 »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #28
4ggr0 wrote: post #13

The Netflix I pay for is currently used by: Me, Mom, Dad, Grandparents, GF, GFs Mom. Other than myself and my GF, most of the people on this list watch something on Netflix every couple of months, when I or someone/something else recommend them a movie or show. I don't want them to use my profile, because we then obviously can't watch the same things, and it'll break my recommendations. I get why Netflix wants to spl…

> Currently, they get approximately $240 per year from me and my family. If everyone has to create their own account, that number goes up to $1200. Typo of extra zero? Is this US dollars? The most expensive digital plan is 17.99 USD / month. With discs, few $ more. USD 240/month is excessive.

As others already pointed out, I wrote that it's per year.

But I quickly looked at it, the amounts I mentioned are even too low. Converted to USD, I pay $23 per month. So $276 for one person, or $1380 for my use-case.

Keep in mind that not everyone is from the US :)

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#69

Post by seneca »

Mindwipe wrote: post #23
seneca wrote: post #11

I struggle to see Netflix existing in its current form in 5 years. Their content is just awful, and the continuous price hikes just aren't justified. If they also start cracking down on shared accounts, I can only see it hastening their demise.

This was a popular sentiment when they started blocking VPNs on Hacker News. A lot of money to be made betting against it.

Yes, very fair statement. I don't think they were really under strong competitive pressure until somewhat recently though. You can get away with quite a lot when you're the only game in town. Less so when Disney are your competition.

Re: Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info

#70

Post by 4ggr0 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #48
4ggr0 wrote: post #13

The Netflix I pay for is currently used by: Me, Mom, Dad, Grandparents, GF, GFs Mom. Other than myself and my GF, most of the people on this list watch something on Netflix every couple of months, when I or someone/something else recommend them a movie or show. I don't want them to use my profile, because we then obviously can't watch the same things, and it'll break my recommendations. I get why Netflix wants to spl…

> Should my grandma pay $240 per year, to watch two movies I recommend to her (and are ONLY watchable on Netflix)? This seems more like an edge case. If grandma is only watching a couple movies per year, would Netflix even bother throwing up a warning message? If she didn’t have her own profile in your account, it would be difficult for Netflix to even know if this was a shared account or if you were just logging in…

You actually bring up a good point. I thought that they'll just show this message to everyone, but maybe you're right and they analyze the usage somehow to only notify people who are abusing it.

Else, how do you handle people going on business trips and vacations?

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