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Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

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Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#131

Post by goatinaboat »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #76
elil17 wrote: post #65

The big empirical evidence that those deathbed platitudes are right: The Harvard Adult Development Study. The results are clear: achievements (even for people who achieve incredible, world changing things that most of us could never hope to come close to) aren't strongly correlated with happiness at any age. Good interpersonal relationships, in contrast, are the most powerful happiness determining factor.

Until you realize that some achievements are needed to have good relationships.

Until you realize that some achievements are needed to have good relationships

Achieving or accomplishing something is important, it's not so important what exactly, but if you never achieve or accomplish anything at all you will have difficulty forming relationships with quality people

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#132

Post by jedberg »

notriddle wrote: post #119
jedberg wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

A million is quite a bit higher than you need for that: https://money.com/ideal-income-study/

If you have many millions, you no longer need to work and can spend all of your time on friendships, if you so desire. If you have few million, you can pay people to do chores for you, so you have more time for friends, if you desire.

That was my point -- that having millions gives you a lot of freedom to choose how you spend your time.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#133

Post by goatinaboat »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #121
grok22 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is your perspective more correct that the perspective of the person who doesn't want to die? I think we all know that people are of various natures and think in a myriad number of ways and refuse to accept that mostly so that society remains stable. But I feel that assuming this perspective is better than the other one (about not wanting to die) in this respect (for this particular thing about wanting to live or…

The point is that death is inevitable. You can either accept the inevitable or fight it, you get to the same place regardless. One of the recurring characters on Star Trek were the omniscient immortal Q. One of the recurring subplots was of the Q getting bored of being immortal. "For us, the disease is immortality." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqvxufh6ZDo It's one thing to have purpose, or meaningful things to do…

One of the recurring characters on Star Trek were the omniscient immortal Q. One of the recurring subplots was of the Q getting bored of being immortal.

Speaking of Star Trek, Picard spends his entire spin-off series waxing lyrical about how death is so meaningful but when faced with his own death he [SPOILER ALERT] opts to become immortal instead.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#134

Post by WhompingWindows »

jedberg wrote: post #85
notriddle wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a millionaire to make friends.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

Actually, the richest members of society typically work longer hours. While that may not be true for their family and hangers-on, if your own personal goal is to have a lot of friends, being a millionaire is not the path, since CEO's and CFO's and the like spend a LOT more time than average workers on their profession.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#135

Post by nonameiguess »

elil17 wrote: post #65

The big empirical evidence that those deathbed platitudes are right: The Harvard Adult Development Study. The results are clear: achievements (even for people who achieve incredible, world changing things that most of us could never hope to come close to) aren't strongly correlated with happiness at any age. Good interpersonal relationships, in contrast, are the most powerful happiness determining factor.

Is happiness or achievement the actual point of life? I think a lot of high achievers know damn well they aren't ever going to be happy. Would someone like Michael Jordan who probably spent 90% of his time on the court totally pissed off at himself or his teammates or both and in utter misery after every loss give up the greatness if he could have been a mediocre but happy person?

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#136

Post by throwaway98797 »

notriddle wrote: post #80
throwaway98797 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you realize that some achievements are needed to have good relationships.

You don't need to be a millionaire to make friends.

Doesn’t need to be financial.

I find that learning stuff and being able to do things improve my relationships dramatically. You got to have something to be able to give back.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#137

Post by jedberg »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #134
jedberg wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

Actually, the richest members of society typically work longer hours. While that may not be true for their family and hangers-on, if your own personal goal is to have a lot of friends, being a millionaire is not the path, since CEO's and CFO's and the like spend a LOT more time than average workers on their profession.

As I've said a few times below, they may choose to spend more time on their friends. Being a millionaire gives you that choice because you can pay people to do things that would normally take away time from your friends, like chores.

It isn't a necessary conclusion.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#138

Post by wtetzner »

buran77 wrote: post #127
wtetzner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think deathbed is the part of the issue because it distracts from the goal. Maybe a better exercise might be "Imagine yourself in the (distant?) future, while you're still healthy. What would you want that life to look like?".

Imagining things is never the same as facing a finality that has been ingrained throughout your life in your psyche. You can't accurately imagine being old until you're old. You can't accurately imagine being right at the edge of life until you're there. It's like imagining how you'll feel at the end of a movie that wasn't filmed yet, or what the last block of a blockchain will look like before being close to it. Whe…

That's completely missing the point of the exercise. You don't need to accurately imagine it. The point of the exercise is to figure out what you want in life now, by giving you a different perspective.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#139

Post by wtetzner »

goatinaboat wrote: post #129
bachmeier wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is the goal. The problem is that the more I think about being on my deathbed (or death, or read obituaries, etc.) the more I realize I won't care how I spent my life. All of which tells me that how I spend my time today is irrelevant. A long run perspective most definitely does not tell you what really matters to you.

the more I think about being on my deathbed (or death, or read obituaries, etc.) the more I realize I won't care how I spent my life It's why the "bus factor" is such a weird concept. If I get hit by a bus then I guarantee that I will not care in the slightest if anyone else knows how to run the TPS reports. Same if I win the lottery!

But you will care if someone else wins the lottery and you're stuck dealing with their project after.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#140

Post by mrburkins »

harperlee wrote: post #27
pomian wrote: post #23

The most poignant last words I heard from someone about to die, and did 2 hours later: "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about.

We are bombarded from fiction with the trope of someone making peace before dying. The fear my mother had just before dying from cancer, that I’ll never forget. It gives me shivers and anxiety more than a decade afterwards.

i lost my father a year ago, and was there as he passed away. society/hospice tells us that it brings comfort to the dying to be surrounded by family - who knows (and is the least i could do to support him after all he did for me). what i do know is that watching someone die is not for the faint of heart - its brutal. thank you for sharing your story and articulating/validating how i've been feeling about things. i wish you peace on your journey.
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