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Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

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Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#61

Post by TeMPOraL »

jolux wrote: post #40
nullserver wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people lie like they breathe, it’s automatic, and doesn’t have any meaning. It’s not meant to be malicious.

Does the intent really matter?

It matters, in the same way intent matters when you cut somebody with a blade. Was it attempted murder? Self-defense? Carelessness? Accident? Surgery?

Lies, similarly, are fundamentally destructive - a lie is a piece of invalid data that corrupts, to smaller or greater extent, the minds of everyone who come in contact with it. Incorporating a lie in your reasoning moves you further from accurately perceiving reality. Sometimes, very rarely, a lie may be justified - the best of available options, even accounting for second-order effects. Usually, it isn't. But it matters whether the lie was accidental, good-faith, attempt at poisoning someone's mind, or wanton disregard for peoples' ability to grasp reality.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#63

Post by tomasdore »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am more and more getting irked by the "should not have worked so hard" crowd, or to be more precise, the ones that go "just quit and go backpacking". Great if you're young, wealthy and have a good social safety net (read: rich parents), not so much for the other 99% of the population. I tried it once, going out of my comfort zone to do the backpacking thing, but it just wasn't for me. I'm not very social, have trou…

That seems like valuable perspective. You are not one who likes to be alone with their thoughts too much. What's the version of quit and go backpacking for someone like you? My brother did the same thing and like you did not enjoy it. He thought it was too boring without another person. I havnt dont it but I'm very comfortable with really limited social contact and live in my own thoughts. If I had two good knees I'd…

Quit and keep busy? i.e. quit and volunteer.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#64

Post by hjorthjort »

I've written about this: https://www.hjorthjort.xyz/2018/02/21/the-deathbed-fallacy.h...

My main issue with the deathbed advice is exactly what he calls "hindsight bias". The deathbed advice is more of a wish-list -- it's not like they were thinking at the time "I should work harder" or "I don't live as my true self, and that's fine". I try to not work too hard, but I also try to make a good and meaningful career for myself. Do I just work less hard? I try to live as my authentic self, but looking back 5 years I see I was probably not doing, in a bunch of ways that seem obvious now but weren't at the time. I wish I had stayed in touch with some of my friends, but quite a few of them I'm happy I cut ties with.

I take no big offence with the advice in general. I think most people recognize that list as things that are sensible and lead to a higher-quality life. If these advice came from a generic life-coach, we'd shrug and say "good points, seems about right, easier said than done". But somehow, because they are "deathbed regrets" they get a veneer of sage-likeness.

Then again, here we are arguing about articles on Hacker News, so what the hell do we know about happiness?

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#65

Post by elil17 »

The big empirical evidence that those deathbed platitudes are right: The Harvard Adult Development Study. The results are clear: achievements (even for people who achieve incredible, world changing things that most of us could never hope to come close to) aren't strongly correlated with happiness at any age. Good interpersonal relationships, in contrast, are the most powerful happiness determining factor.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#67

Post by Viliam1234 »

pwinnski wrote: post #49
Iv wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.

I'm very curious about your assumption that dying people have low incentive to lie. How do you figure? It seems as if nearing the moment of death might make people desperate to represent themselves as better people, more noble than their lived experiences might have shown them to be. I certainly have ideals to which I fail to live up, and while dying I might express those ideal to those around me, since observing my…

For example, a dying person may say: "I regret every day I spent at work; the career was absolutely not worth it; I wish I would have spent more time with my friends and family" without being worried about potential impact on their future employment.

Dying can give you the ultimate form of freedom of speech, when you are also free from the consequences.

I agree that a person who cares about how they will be remembered has an incentive to lie. But is it greater than before that?

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#68

Post by hjorthjort »

martyrs wrote: post #62

Those interested in the subject might find the movie Martyrs interesting. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1029234/

... "Fifteen years after a horrifying experience of abduction and prolonged torture, Lucie embarks on a bloody quest for revenge against her oppressors. Along with her childhood friend, Anna, who also suffered abuse, she quickly descends, without hope, into madness and her own delusions. Anna, left on her own begins to re-experience what Lucie did when she was only twelve years old."

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#69

Post by bboylen »

nineplay wrote: post #51
coldtea wrote: post #4

For a: - "I should have done X" (regret because X wasn't followed) there are probably as many: - "I should not have done X" (regret because X was followed and made things shit) Even the "should not have worked as hard" would be most likely balanced with others saying: "should not have been as slack or loose at work, and did something important, made some legacy" In the end, nothing really matters, and the perspective…

The "I should not have worked as hard" deathbed quote has always bugged me. There are plenty of people who think they could have been more or done more. It's not a perfect example, but there are plenty of "Walter White"s who taught high-school science and think they were capable of so much more. I find it is happening among some women I know who chose to stay at home and now, as the kids are getting older, are thinki…

I feel like people often regret not taking the risk to go work (hard) on something they find meaningful.

Not sure if as many regret that they didn't put in the extra hours to get to the next level in a big corporation.

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