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Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

japantoday.com

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Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#71

Post by kungito »

zpeti wrote: post #66
book-sandworm wrote: post #46

This is such a painful situation for Japan. When I visited a couple a years ago the preparations were still going full force. They were so proud and looking forward to hosting it. Really think they are between a rock and a hard place with any decision. This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship make it seem like organising events like this not something I…

Are their any actual legit studies that have shown if hosting an olympics is worth it for the overall economy or not? For example I think the olympics put Barcelona on the map for a lot of tourists and they’ve been reaping the rewards since, but it seems to me that’s more of an exception than the rule.

I cannot imagine Barcelona needing something to put it on a map. Am not spanish

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#72

Post by Blikkentrekker »

steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

I have read a very interesting theory in that it is about how Japanese is spoken.

There is an interesting trick that is often taught to students of Japanese to faithfully reproduce the sounds in the language: that is to cover one's teeth with one's lips while speaking as much as possible, as most of the characteristic sounds of Japanese are caused by this.

This greatly reduces the amount of air that escapes as one speaks Japanese.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#73

Post by Blikkentrekker »

toyg wrote: post #70
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship Are they not simply de factō slaves? deprived of a right to leave at their choosing? That the world accepts this shows well the hypocrisy of man. — I suppose that for all of his theoretical abhorrence by slavery, a good football match weights heavier than that.

I don't think "the world accepts it", but they are resigned to the fact that the moneyed interests powering these events are unstoppable. Which may or may not be true. Some of the opposition is even tactically waiting for the best time to make a stand - which might well be when the country is most exposed. See for example how the Yemeni Houti rebels tried to hit a Formula E event in Saudi Arabia with missiles. The wo…

The world could easily pressure Qatar into abolishing this, but it does not do so.

We're speaking of countries that were willing to wage costly wars on flimsy evidence of w.m.d.'s, that are now not willing to pressure a nation over real evidence of slavery.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#74

Post by zpeti »

steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

I can’t help but think this is to do with genetics and mutations.

I’m in a country where cases are now exploding because of the Brit mutation. And the whole Italy situation last year was a mutation I believe.

I can’t help but think Europe is completely fucked with this virus. Our genetics don’t seem well adapted to the virus, and now we have super infectious strains.

Meanwhile everyone is getting vaccinated, so by the time the mutations would get out of Europe they’ll be ok. (Brazil and SA being the exception).

So I feel like us here in Europe are proper fucked compared to the rest of the world.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#75

Post by mleonhard »

mleonhard wrote: post #42
strogonoff wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see an...well, let's just call it interesting...number of Japanese people socializing in small restaurants, bars, etc. without wearing masks. Same in Seoul. When discussing this matter with friends located elsewhere, they seem to have difficulty believing this, but every cafe and restaurant will have 90%+ of visitors talking without masks after they finish eating until the time they leave. (Those sitting alone qu…

When infection rates spiked, did Korean people reduce the time they spend maskless in public indoor spaces? Are Korean people more likely to wear a mask in public when they're feeling sick?

To the folks downvoting: Please explain why you think the questions are not appropriate for this discussion.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#76

Post by SonicTheSith »

h0nd wrote: post #60
CaptainZapp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative, really? Essentially letting billions of $ of infrastructure go to complete waste? That said, I agree with you. Then again the host city always pulls the shit end of the stick when organizing such an event.

Maybe it would be an option to NOT treat every foreigner as a possible threat, but as a welcomed guest to visit Japan and the Olympic games. edit: I am surprised to see YC attracting people supporting discrimination.

You are aware that we have a global pandemic right?

So if even you won't treat everyone as a possible threat, the chance that 'guests' bring in the virus is high. Since Japan is an island, most people will fly there by plane and most people will be inside the plane for at least 6 hours+. Even if at half capacity the chance that there is 1 infectious person/ person becoming infectious is high.

All Tests are snapshots of whether or not your infectious at time X.

Quick tests are only valid for 6 hours since they only check whether you are infectious.

PCR Tests are more accurate but take some time to get the results. Thus there is a chance to get infected afterwards and before the flight.

So all 'guests' would need to go into quarantine for 5 days just to make sure that there is no infection. Who is going to house them? Is it feasable to have large numbers of foreigners quarantined in Japan? Will they follow the rules? Will they were a mask? Looking at the news and the rule bending rule breaking that is happening in the west regarding the pandemic gives litte hope.

Furthermore, to protect your own country from a new outbreak is it really a wise decision to add another thousands of people into an already overcrowded city?

EDIT: Adding to that, since the whole world is not yet vaccinated mutations are a real threat, even in the US they found 2 new mutations in the past weeks. The later even seems to be immun to the vaccinations. Thus to not have to cancel the whole event and all 'guest' bookings one could also argue that the best way is to minimize the risk, chaos, loss. Now everyone can plan around the restrictions and further cancelations are less likely.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#77

Post by legerdemain »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #72
steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

I have read a very interesting theory in that it is about how Japanese is spoken. There is an interesting trick that is often taught to students of Japanese to faithfully reproduce the sounds in the language: that is to cover one's teeth with one's lips while speaking as much as possible, as most of the characteristic sounds of Japanese are caused by this. This greatly reduces the amount of air that escapes as one sp…

Please, no, no more "This is a PEN" Japanese-language chauvinism, I beg you. There is a whole thing in Japan about how the Japanese language has various hidden beneficial qualities, like it's some kind of gift from God. This idea about expelling less air while speaking in Japanese is firmly in that vein, and it got a lot of play on tabloid news shows, and it's total garbage.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#78

Post by chrischen »

Clewza313 wrote: post #49
euske wrote: post #16

The sad truth is that COVID accelerated xenophobia and isolationism throughout the world, and Japan is no exception.

Why the downvotes? Japan's COVID policy has been quite openly xenophobic: for a long time, Japanese citizens could return with minimal checks, but even permanent residents had an absolute bar on re-entry.

Yea the r/movingtojapan thread is full of people complaining about how the policies seem to give Japanese citizens a free pass while blaming the importation of new virus strains on misbehaving foreigners (whether or not that's true). They've fully blocked immigration (not tourists—legal immigrants) despite fairly strict quarantine and testing policies.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#79

Post by kijin »

strogonoff wrote: post #41
timr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now I had something in there about this, but deleted it because I thought it was distracting from the main point, and any mention of masks brings out the politics. That said: I see an...well, let's just call it interesting ...number of Japanese people socializing i…

> I see an...well, let's just call it interesting...number of Japanese people socializing in small restaurants, bars, etc. without wearing masks. Same in Seoul. When discussing this matter with friends located elsewhere, they seem to have difficulty believing this, but every cafe and restaurant will have 90%+ of visitors talking without masks after they finish eating until the time they leave. (Those sitting alone qu…

Stranger danger.

If you're having lunch with someone, you probably know them well and trust them to have a sense of hygiene. Some random person who sneezes on Line 9 during the morning rush, not so much. Or at least that's how people's minds appear to work.

This behavior seems to be sustainable only because the background rate of infection is so low. It really is vanishingly unlikely for anyone you come across in a coffee shop to have the virus, as most of the cases have occurred in relatively isolated groups like religious cults, prisons, and hospitals.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#80

Post by DocTomoe »

kungito wrote: post #71
zpeti wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are their any actual legit studies that have shown if hosting an olympics is worth it for the overall economy or not? For example I think the olympics put Barcelona on the map for a lot of tourists and they’ve been reaping the rewards since, but it seems to me that’s more of an exception than the rule.

I cannot imagine Barcelona needing something to put it on a map. Am not spanish

Barcelona Olympics happened in 1992. Back then, foreign tourists tended to go to the Balearic Islands almost exclusively, Barcelona was kind of an inside tip for the young backpackers.

Memories of an actually fascist government (which only disappeared some 15 years before) were still very present, and many foreigners thought the islands to be "safe tourist resorts", much like the tourist resorts of Cuba today (with few, mostly Boheme types ever leaving them during their stay).

Not sure if Barcelona as a tourist destination was caused by the Olympics, but in 1991, it certainly was not a major destination for Europeans.

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