Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

boilingsteam.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 333 posts

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#111

Post by Zhyl »

tpmx wrote: post #76
Zhyl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proton is Wine + DXVK + d9VK + custom patches. The 'secret sauce' is actually 'Steam Play' which is the automated wrapping, configuration and execution of Proton wrapped games without the user having to do anything (other than a confirmation box to confirm that a compatibility layer is being used). The Steam Play component turns it from a 'nice meta-distribution for wine' into 'killer quality of life improvement'.

How much of this is open source? I'd expect everything, including the per-game details? (Not asking you to do research on demand, just in case you already know...)

Not sure about the per-game config, but the Proton is definitely open source [0], as are DXVK [1] and D9VK [2].

Steam Play is part of the Steam client, so is proprietary. ProtonDB isn't open source but does data dumps to github regularly [3].

[0] https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/

[1] https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk

[2] https://github.com/Joshua-Ashton/d9vk

[3] https://github.com/bdefore/protondb-data

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#112

Post by macNchz »

mewse wrote: post #74
cf wrote: post #58

The problem with Proton is it is leading many game developers to actually drop Linux support. They basically say players seem to be able to get the game to work on Proton and that's that. But with no official support there is no guarantee it will continue to work with updates. There is no promise to even try to make it work if it breaks. And that's the major stuff. Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game tha…

I have a game on Steam, developed primarily on Linux, and providing a Linux build (in addition to Windows and Mac). Linux makes up approximately 0.5% of my sales. (Mac is about 2%, and Windows is the other ~97%) And from conversations with other developers, these are pretty standard percentages. I make and offer a native Linux build because I wanted to do it, but the financials really aren’t there to justify it from…

Exactly... I keep reading these concerns that Proton will cause developers to ignore Linux, when really there's effectively zero incentive for developers to pay attention to Linux in the first place, given how few people use the platform to play games.

In my view any system that makes it realistic for people who buy games to use Linux full time can only increase the chances a developer will be able to justify supporting a Linux version of their game.

I use desktop Linux primarily (complemented by a Windows partition and a Mac laptop) and would love to see more support from game developers, but the idea of such a small niche of users turning their noses up at "ports" and demanding native builds with support is borderline absurd.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#113

Post by sandworm101 »

Corazoor wrote: post #96
sandworm101 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Proton creates a dangerous market pressure. The linux+proton user is the ideal customer for a game developer: someone paying full price but to whom you owe absolutely no obligations. Bug reports from Proton users can be safely ignored. They should feel lucky if the game even started under their not-supported hack of an operating system. But those who purchase a native linux client (KSP, Factorio, Prison Archi…

I have never viewd it that way, but you are absolutely right about the danger. On the other hand I have now seen multiple games where the developers were implementing wine specific bugfixes. I think it goes both ways: Showing willingness to support at least proton/wine will also net you some additional sold copies. And being unfriendly towards linux users is probably more bad PR nowadays than it used to be.

Showing support for linux is great, but what about DRM? What happens when the desire to prevent piracy of the windows client means attaching software that will never in a million years run on linux? DRM is why linux users have basically given up on ever getting access to games from the largest developers.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#114

Post by poisonborz »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #97
poisonborz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, you need an official wireless adapter, bluetooth is much slower and also trigger buttons won't work. Even with the adapter, the pairing might be awful, but there is a little known fact that you need to plug in the controller via usb for a moment, unplug, and it will just work (for the same machine). Also install x360ce for older games. With these in place, the controllers work 100% great for any controller g…

I didn't realize there was a USB adapter. There's a problem on Windows where pairing an xbox controller via bluetooth can result in reduced performance, so I've taken to using my switch pro controller in Steam. The switch controller doesn't work for games that can't be launched via Steam, though, so maybe I'll pick the adapter up (and someday move to Linux maybe? I keep thinking about it).

I don't think it's worth buying anything else for a PC other than an XBox controller. They are the best price/performance, and have the widest support. Anything else is gambling wether it works. But if you already have a Switch Pro, you can try x360ce - it can map the buttons to standard Xbox bindings.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#115

Post by Zhyl »

cf wrote: post #71
Zhyl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you cite some examples? I know of games that have dropped Linux support (RUST, Rocket League) but those are all to do with Anti-cheat rather than citing Proton as a feasible alternative to a native port.

Sure thing. Supergiant has previously released all their games (Bastion, Transistor, Pyre) with Linux support. With Hades they explicitly said would not come to Linux, and in fact cite the presence of Proton as a reason [1] Nicalis games has released games like Cave Story, VVVVVV and Binding of Isaac with Linux support. But the latest DLC of BoI will not have Linux support. 1. https://steamcommunity.com/app/1145360/d…

Thanks, I will read up on these. I was feeling fairly secure that this was a concern that hadn't materialised, but it seems I have since been proved wrong :)

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#116

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

ThaDood wrote: post #4

Proton is the reason I moved from a Windows + MacOS machine to GNU/Linux full time. I understand the concern that some hardcore enthusiasts might have about it making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports but to be honest I don't care. I am just glad to have a simple method of gaming on GNU/Linux. Proton plus Lutris and the slew other tools that have come out in recent years has made the transition to GN…

I finally took the plunge and started dual booting with Fedora as the default. Unless I plan to game I just use Linux and it's been awesome. Though I can't use Wayland (Nvidia) and digital audio is flakey (though fixed in fedora 34), none have been deal breakers.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#117

Post by podiki »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #69
k__ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good does this work with things like Oculus Quest, SteamVR, etc.? Are there any performance implications?

There is still no functional VR media player for linux, none of the Windows ones work with Proton and the official SteamVR Media Player has no linux release.

Not sure what you mean, but there is the open source vr-video-player [0] that works with YouTube, can put flat games on a virtual big screen, etc. Works great.

[0] https://git.dec05eba.com/vr-video-player/about/

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#118

Post by zbobet2012 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #116
ThaDood wrote: post #4

Proton is the reason I moved from a Windows + MacOS machine to GNU/Linux full time. I understand the concern that some hardcore enthusiasts might have about it making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports but to be honest I don't care. I am just glad to have a simple method of gaming on GNU/Linux. Proton plus Lutris and the slew other tools that have come out in recent years has made the transition to GN…

I finally took the plunge and started dual booting with Fedora as the default. Unless I plan to game I just use Linux and it's been awesome. Though I can't use Wayland (Nvidia) and digital audio is flakey (though fixed in fedora 34), none have been deal breakers.

Wayland with Nvidia works in fedora 33, you just have to un-blacklist the driver.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#119

Post by ben-schaaf »

phone8675309 wrote: post #62
throwaway3699 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EAC is also spyware which installs a Kernel driver with privileged access. Valve's VAC works fine without this invasive tech.

VAC doesn't work fine. For the last 18 months, TF2 has been infested with aimbots that make the game unplayable on any public server. That doesn't mean it should be more invasive, but it doesn't work fine.

Considering the complete lack of attention TF2 gets from valve I wouldn't consider it a fair reflection of VAC's effectiveness. It had been infested for ages before a media outcry about the bigoted chat spam finally spurred valve into action, yet all they did was ban f2p accounts from using chat.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#120

Post by Zhyl »

Barrin92 wrote: post #70
bryanlarsen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market share is king. With Linux at 1% Linux gamers are screwed, Proton or not.

also from several game devs I've talked to, not only is the market share negligible, the bug reports aren't. Common sentiment was that Linux was ~1% of their sales but a third of complaints.

I know this sounds silly, but would you be able to confirm that this is based on actual conversations that you've personally had with game developers about projects they've personally worked on?

There have been rumours stoked especially by tweets from the Planetary Annihilation developer that he has since retracted/clarified but these still seem to fuel a lot of negative perceptions of Linux support that aren't seen in the main.

Post reply on HN