Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#61

Post by Zhyl » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

cf wrote: post #58

The problem with Proton is it is leading many game developers to actually drop Linux support. They basically say players seem to be able to get the game to work on Proton and that's that. But with no official support there is no guarantee it will continue to work with updates. There is no promise to even try to make it work if it breaks. And that's the major stuff. Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game tha…

Could you cite some examples? I know of games that have dropped Linux support (RUST, Rocket League) but those are all to do with Anti-cheat rather than citing Proton as a feasible alternative to a native port.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#62

Post by phone8675309 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

throwaway3699 wrote: post #48

davemtl wrote: post #15

EAC (Easy Anti-Cheat) is the main reason why I've not switched from Windows to a full-time Linux desktop. While EAC does include support for Linux[1], it's up to the developer/publisher to enable it. 1. https://www.easy.ac/en-us/support/game/guides/os/ edit: Included EACs unabbreviated form as well as a link to supported operating systems.

EAC is also spyware which installs a Kernel driver with privileged access. Valve's VAC works fine without this invasive tech.

VAC doesn't work fine. For the last 18 months, TF2 has been infested with aimbots that make the game unplayable on any public server.

That doesn't mean it should be more invasive, but it doesn't work fine.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#63

Post by bitcharmer » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

Kees_Veel wrote: post #43

Kees_Veel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The games I mean. I guess I'm in the wrong topic here, but if you play those games, you implicitly have to trust their secret code on your network. User account and all. Obviously most here have done that a long time ago and don't even give it a second thought. This is normal in these times of Windows and Facebooks, but I still care.

Play a silly game and get hacked, It's a perfect trojan scenario, it's the oldest trick in the book. Now take 7000 chances, what are the odds? I can't believe this being downvoted so bad for raising this concern. screw you guys, i'm going home.

You do realise that most desktop computers run on closed source operating systems, don't you?

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#64

Post by rhn_mk1 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

The title is disingenious. Proton is meant to be an improvement over Wine. Did none of those 7000 games work on Wine already?

If I fork Proton as Neutron and add support for 1 game, no one will say "Neutron has enabled 7001 games". It enabled only 1.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#65

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

cf wrote: post #58

The problem with Proton is it is leading many game developers to actually drop Linux support. They basically say players seem to be able to get the game to work on Proton and that's that. But with no official support there is no guarantee it will continue to work with updates. There is no promise to even try to make it work if it breaks. And that's the major stuff. Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game tha…

Market share is king. With Linux at 1% Linux gamers are screwed, Proton or not.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#66

Post by reader_mode » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

cf wrote: post #58

The problem with Proton is it is leading many game developers to actually drop Linux support. They basically say players seem to be able to get the game to work on Proton and that's that. But with no official support there is no guarantee it will continue to work with updates. There is no promise to even try to make it work if it breaks. And that's the major stuff. Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game tha…

> Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game that can break at any moment and know there will be zero support waiting for you.

So spending Multiplayer games that need to be up-to-date and competitive games would probably be annoying to hardcore gamers - but frankly if you're into that you'll be sensitive to performance as well and you should just get on a supported platform.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#67

Post by dfgdghdf » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

My problem with Proton is that they are not strict enough with their ratings. I see a game has "platinum" or "gold" support and think "great, this will work well!" but then I discover it crashes after alt-tab and multiplayer doesn't work at all, which I consider critical bugs.

To me, the levels should be:

* Paltinum - the game works as well as it does on officially supported platforms

* Gold - the game works almost as well as on supported platforms but with minor niggles that don't significantly affect the experience

* Bronze - the game works in some form, but major things might be broken. It would not ship in this state on official platforms.

However, the project is a great start and I look forward to what they do next!

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#68

Post by Zhyl » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

branneman wrote: post #53

How is Proton a technology/library/sorftware? I got the impression it's just a preconfigured Wine, but not an actual implementation. Sorry if I'm misinformed. And _if_ that's true, I'm sad about the credits not going to the Wine team.

Proton is Wine + DXVK + d9VK + custom patches.

The 'secret sauce' is actually 'Steam Play' which is the automated wrapping, configuration and execution of Proton wrapped games without the user having to do anything (other than a confirmation box to confirm that a compatibility layer is being used).

The Steam Play component turns it from a 'nice meta-distribution for wine' into 'killer quality of life improvement'.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#69

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #6

ThaDood wrote: post #4

Proton is the reason I moved from a Windows + MacOS machine to GNU/Linux full time. I understand the concern that some hardcore enthusiasts might have about it making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports but to be honest I don't care. I am just glad to have a simple method of gaming on GNU/Linux. Proton plus Lutris and the slew other tools that have come out in recent years has made the transition to GN…

How good does this work with things like Oculus Quest, SteamVR, etc.? Are there any performance implications?

There is still no functional VR media player for linux, none of the Windows ones work with Proton and the official SteamVR Media Player has no linux release.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#70

Post by Barrin92 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #65

cf wrote: post #58

The problem with Proton is it is leading many game developers to actually drop Linux support. They basically say players seem to be able to get the game to work on Proton and that's that. But with no official support there is no guarantee it will continue to work with updates. There is no promise to even try to make it work if it breaks. And that's the major stuff. Imagine spending 20, 30, or 60 dollars on a game tha…

Market share is king. With Linux at 1% Linux gamers are screwed, Proton or not.

also from several game devs I've talked to, not only is the market share negligible, the bug reports aren't. Common sentiment was that Linux was ~1% of their sales but a third of complaints.