Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

residentcontrarian.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

851–860 of 920 posts

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#851

Post by Grustaf »

sorisos wrote: post #786
chmod600 wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thank you. An important element of my argument is to focus on what's in your control. It's not exclusively about immigrants. In fact, immigrants are less likely to be caught up in notions of fairness because they probably thought to themselves before they came something like "this is going to suck and be unfair, but it will be worth it for my children and grandchildren". So they just make the best of it and comp…

> If every time someone shares their success, the response is instantly about how privileged or lucky they are, then our culture is sick. We should listen to and support those stories. I would argue that a culture which attributes success in life to personal effort or choices is sick. This makes people blame themselves for not trying hard enough etc, when in reality there are more decisive factors such as who your pa…

A culture that didn't do that at all would of course be doomed to failure. If people think it's all about luck, they won't make an effort. In reality it's of course not only about luck at all.

Yes you do need lucky genetics (and insane amounts of hard work) if you want to join the NBA, but if you're willing to work hard and make sacrifices it's more than enough to be born average (not too poor, not too sick), you'll be able to have a very decent life.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#852

Post by bregma »

musingsole wrote: post #708
pessimizer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you spend money as soon as you get it when you're poor is 1) because when you're poor you accumulate debts, both formal and informal, and 2) when you're poor you know other people who are poor and who need things. Thinking poor people like being poor because they value what's really important - friends and family - is like poverty version of the "magical negro" trope. Poor people value friends and family b…

> People with no money problems don't need anyone. > Poor people know who to trust because they've had to trust them before. I feel like this is what's been contributing to collapsing communities in the US more than political tensions or whatever other specter one could point to. The lack of real, repeated need of others. A relative abundance on wealth leads to using money-based services to fix issues instead of rela…

A big part of the problem is definitely systemic.

If the movers and shakers are motivated by building a legacy of good works then they need to be seen to be building such a legacy. Bricks and mortar can be seen. Funding foundations can be seen ("brought to you by the Ford Foundation"). Someone no longer living on the dole can not be seen. Rich people have no motivation to get people out of poverty because there is no credit in it.

The middle class sees everything in terms of money spent. If someone is lifted out of poverty, no more money can be spent on them. The middle class has no motivation to get people out of poverty.

The poor have no motivation to get out of poverty because they're already wealthy.

This is what is termed a 'structural' problem. If someone were really interested in making change, they would try to alter the fundamental structure that shapes the system. I have some interesting anecdotes about such efforts but they're outside the scope if this discussion.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#853

Post by utf_8x »

fastball wrote: post #169
airhead969 wrote: post #55

They don't know the meaning of poor. And, who cares about some absolutely privileged, greedy, manipulative idiots who "can't live" on $200k/yr and take from people who make way less than them. Shame on them! --- If you can count your money, you're poor. If you can count your money and it fits in your pockets, you're very poor. If you can count your money and it fits in your left pocket with room to spare, you're extr…

How much money can you fit in your pockets if they're Benjamins?

My estimate, based on the approximate dimensions of my jeans front pocket and the size and thickness of a $100 bill, would be around 5~8 thousand dollars... Multiple times that if you REALLY stuff it in there...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#854

Post by jrochkind1 »

rossdavidh wrote: post #790
jrochkind1 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you make a good point. The trick is separating "Don't give up" from "it's your fault if you haven't escpaed poverty." Cause it's also dispiriting to have worked your ass off for 10+ years and still be poor and have someone telling you if you were trying hard enough you would be in a different position.

I agree with that as well.

As I come back to this again I guess here's what I think it's really about:

The implication that there's some correlation between how hard you work and poverty. But most poor people I know work way harder than most "professional" people I know. If there's a correlation, it seems to me to be the reverse, poor people are, by neccessity to survive, as a general rule hustling a lot harder than wealthier people.

As the OP actually kind of outlines.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#855

Post by astura »

chrisseaton wrote: post #355
kingnothing wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100 / month on gas, $200 / month for a car payment, $100 / month for insurance. That's not even accounting for maintenance.

$1200 a year insurance? Seems a huge amount! Is this one of those things where it's for some reason more expensive for poor people?

Liability-only insurance with minimum coverage for a good driver with a single car would be only $300-$400/year in my area. $1,200 is if you have collision and comprehensive

The cost varies dramatically from area to area though because each neighborhood has different loss risk, each state (and some locales) has different rules for underwriting, and different minimums for coverage.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#856

Post by greedo »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #667
covidthrow wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely if a rapist deserves to be fed, so does an innocent person who can't find a job? The State actively deprived the rapist of their ability to act autonomously to care for themselves, so they are obligated to do so on their behalf. The State (typically) does not actively deprive an innocent person who can't find a job of their autonomy. (There are some arguable scenarios in which they do, however, such as exces…

The state could put the same deal to the rapist as it does to everyone else: work if you want to eat. It does not. Calling the unemployed lazy is a lie untill you offered them a job and they refused.

Many states in the US force work. It's legal under the Constitution.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#857

Post by [deleted] »

chmod600 wrote: post #831
baby wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, because people often focus on success story to argue that we don’t need to improve the situation, the market will figure out itself, and that’s what we’re seeing at play.

The opposite problem can also happen, where people focus on unfairness instead of taking advantage of the opportunities that they have. That probably causes more actual harm. It depends on the situation, of course. Slavery was so oppressive that it needed to be abolished before any other progress could happen. But that's just not the situation today -- lots of progress can happen without policy changes. I know that p…

[deleted]

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#858

Post by anemoiac »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #756
estaseuropano wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a reality hat: the world does not offer everyone equal chances. You live in a country surrounded by fences and border patrol exactly to keep those that were less lucky from trying to get some of that luck. Even when born in the country, there are better and worse schools, better and worse social infrastructure, a billion different glass ceilings according to color, gender, age, accent or faith. Your comment…

Think of it another way: What advice would you offer a young poor student looking to get out of poverty A) The cards are stacked against you, but your best chance is to work hard, get good grades, keep a clean criminal record, go to college, and get a good job. B) You are the victim of a broken system and this system needs to be fixed. Both are true, but only one of these messages is actionable and relevant for the s…

I don't understand why you can't tell the hypothetical young, poor student both 'A' and 'B.' In fact, not doing so seems a bit manipulative (regardless of your intentions).

A potential consequence of perpetually leaving 'B' out of the discussion is that, while some of these young, poor students will escape poverty and others will not, neither group may realize that the status quo reflects decisions made by human beings, not some invisible law of nature.

Telling poor and disenfranchised people that hard work is the solution to all of their problems sounds just like a recipe for inducing learned helplessness [1] to me. Sure, some hard-working poor people will escape poverty, but plenty won't. The difference between the two groups often lies in factors outside of their control.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#859

Post by sershe »

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

Interesting, I have two conflicting feelings about this. On one hand I agree with you and I am super paranoid about being poor. On the other hand, one thing that I definitely learned from growing up poor (I like the original article say "it’s very small (think ~900 sqft)", cause I had stable housing when I was growing up and it was 600sqft for 3-4 people ;)) is how little you need to be happy.

In college, when we were somewhat better off but before I could work a real job, I often had a choice of either paying my internet bill, buying (cheap) cafeteria lunches, or buying beer. So, unless I wanted to and could find a part-time job, I liked to joke that my choices were - hungry, sober, and online; sated, sober and offline; and hungry, drunk and offline. I was still happy. After I got my first job, sometimes I would get impostor syndrome and become afraid of losing it; then I'd be like, well I used to be happy when I was choosing between the three options, so anything on top of that is just a nice bonus. As long as I have 150sqft of housing, some food and an internet connection I will be fine. I like to think about that every time I'm afraid of losing my current level of privilege.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#860

Post by bsanr2 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #470
bsanr2 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberal approach is to subsidize to maintain that base level, because of an awareness that the social outcomes tend to pay dividends in higher social unity, better health, etc. Some people would rather pay for private security than for policy that makes muggings less likely, I suppose.

Is this what California, San Francisco, or New York do?

Pay for security rather than progressive social welfare policy?

I take it you've never heard of the NYPD or LAPD? "But they're not private security." Boy, I guess you got me there.

Post reply on HN