Live data from Hacker News

On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

residentcontrarian.substack.com

461–470 of 920 posts

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how come I keep hearing that a significant portion of homeless in the US have lost their houses in a medical-event-realted bankruptcy?

Retirees qualify for nationalized health insurance. In theory, those 65+ would be mostly immune for health-related bankruptcy (although co-pays/deductibles can still be problematic). Anybody younger has to pay for health care out of pocket or buy insurance. The cost of paying OOP is exorbitant. Even buying insurance on the open market is outrageously expensive. In either case, major medical issues can easily escalate…

For the benefit of others who may be reading I'll mention a couple of other programs...

There's Medicaid, the federally funded healthcare program for the poor. It is free. As a single person there are really low limits on how much assets and income you can have and qualify. Kids are more easily qualified, even if there parents may not be. Doctor choice is limited, there are lines, etc.

There's also the VA, available for veterans. I'm not sure of the rules around this. But those qualified get free care.

Throughout the country hospitals are supposed to patch up anyone who shows up with an emergency. The patient will get a bill after, but they won't be left to bleed to death. This doesn't help with slowly developing problems, though.

Beyond these free programs, (and Medicare for retired folks, talked about earlier), there's also Obamacare, which subsidizes medical coverage for those making too much to qualify for Medicaid. Someone working full time for minimum wage and making $14k per year (which is enough to rent a room and have a junk car), might end up with a subsidized plan having a $6k+ deductable (which they don't have!), someone making double that (enough for an inexpensive apartment and a used car) would pay $175 a month for the same plan. Obamacare details vary by state.

People with jobs making more than the above often have health care offered through work, and no longer qualify for Obamacare plans. At the low end these plans may not be as good as the Obamacare plans. Typically these plans might cost the employee $100-$200/month and up if there are multiple plans to choose from (the employer may be contributing 2-5x that, depending on the job), and have a deductable of several thousand dollars, with yearly exams and routine screening included for free. The problem becomes that you have to pay for everything else up to your deductable, then costs are shared up to a max limit perhaps $15k, then the plan covers all costs for all covered care. The deductable and maximum double for family plans.

One big problem with all the plans with deductables is that it is near impossible to find out what anything non-trivial will cost, which is discouraging when you have to pay some of these costs.

Government employees typically have the best plans, similar to what the average white collar worker had 20-30 years ago. Small copayments instead of large deductables. These plans were phased out by most private employers because they were too expensive, for both employers and most employees.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#463

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. I hear things get said by people that are so far from the orbit of my reality and I cringe. Reading the article was really eye opening for me because I hadn't thought of all of the life s…

>And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it.

If you make the assumption that HN is vaguely representative of the software industry and then looking at the reception that all the comments that stop short of saying "luck is the primary factor of success" are getting it seems pretty obvious why nobody talks about it.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re-read the objected to line: "I made it and you can too." Note that I emphasized "can" in that quote. "Can", not "will". This isn't a guarantee by throwaway-0987, it's words of encouragement to try. On a forum that celebrates startup moonshots, I find it odd that anyone would piss on the idea that trying is worth while.

I genuinely don't know if even "can" is applicable to allpoor people in this context. A person who has a similar background but ended up with a chronic illness preventing them from working... that dream of working for 200k/yr is impossible.

We're not even talking about "that dream of working for 200k/yr" but the dream of living a decent life

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#465
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I made it and you can too. Poverty has no color. It impacts everyone. You can't tell just by looking at someone. I love your story. There's also a ton of people who will delight in cherry-picking your story, as justification for not expanding the social safety net. "throwaway-0987 did it, and you can too! You just need to stop being so lazy" A few factors to consider: - You had an aunt you could live with - As a yo…

3 of the 5 factors you list boil down to "OP made good decisions and worked hard". I'm not sure how that is a counter argument to "throwaway-0987 did it, and you can too! You just need to stop being so lazy". From their description, it doesn't sound like living with his Aunt was a tremendous boon either. I don't mean to argue against a social safety net (free college in this example was certainly a good thing). I jus…

Living with anyone beats being out on the street. And probably beat being in the foster system.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#466
post #7

>while it’s normal to put down a month or two worth of rent as a security deposit, it’s much less normal to get it back This looks insane to an Australian. I have moved house 4 times in the past 5 years and I have never not got all of my bond back. Some states here have a rule that the bond money is held by the state so that the landowner doesn't just take that money for themselves. How can the poor ever break the cy…

I'm American and my experience matches yours. I've always got my deposit back. However, if there is a country that embodies "your mileage may vary" it is the USA.

that is not just due to us sticking with the imperial system, either.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#467
post #277

I have a possibly stupid question... Parts of america have really really high housing costs... like really high... and a bunch of people want to live there, and a lot of people there are poor (atleast compared to housing prices). Why the hell do you still build single family houses, or one/two floor buildings in areas where you need to fit a bunch of people (eg. both photos in the article)? I'm from a former socialis…

The answer for a city like San Francisco is all the available land was built on 70 years ago (with a few exceptions).

Yeah, but SF also still mandates low densities in most of its neighborhoods: https://sfplanning.org/resource/zoning-height-and-bulk-distr...

It could change that to help make housing more affordable, and chooses not to.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#468
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

As someone who has experienced pretty rough times (different from the OP), but doing just fine myself, of course luck has a lot to do with it, but why in the world so many people feel so compelled to belittle the accomplishment of OP climbing out and then encouraging others to at least hope for the same? I’m pretty sure things would be very different today if I didn’t have that hope. Don’t take the hope from people e…

> why in the world so many people feel so compelled to belittle the accomplishment of OP climbing out and then encouraging others to at least hope for the same?

It is very sad if you ask me. Some people hold the worldview that becoming poor and staying poor are things entirely outside of one's own control. Success stories threaten that worldview, so people admonish those who "made it" and remind them that they are nothing but lucky.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#469
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I made it and you can too. Poverty has no color. It impacts everyone. You can't tell just by looking at someone. I love your story. There's also a ton of people who will delight in cherry-picking your story, as justification for not expanding the social safety net. "throwaway-0987 did it, and you can too! You just need to stop being so lazy" A few factors to consider: - You had an aunt you could live with - As a yo…

3 of the 5 factors you list boil down to "OP made good decisions and worked hard". I'm not sure how that is a counter argument to "throwaway-0987 did it, and you can too! You just need to stop being so lazy". From their description, it doesn't sound like living with his Aunt was a tremendous boon either. I don't mean to argue against a social safety net (free college in this example was certainly a good thing). I jus…

> The government can not and should not lift people out of poverty if those people refuse to work to better themselves.

I think everyone is deserving of not living in poverty. Even "lazy" people.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#470
post #428
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what's ridiculous about much of the zoning and building codes here. People don't want poor people living in sub-optimal housing, so instead they force them to sleep outside or live with abusive people.

The liberal approach is to subsidize to maintain that base level, because of an awareness that the social outcomes tend to pay dividends in higher social unity, better health, etc. Some people would rather pay for private security than for policy that makes muggings less likely, I suppose.

Is this what California, San Francisco, or New York do?
Post reply on HN