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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#371
post #2

A while ago I read about a study that surveyed people with inherited wealth. IIRC they ranged from having inherited tens to hundreds of millions. No matter how much they had inherited, when asked how much they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure and not have to worry about money, they said they would need something like half again to double. I may be misremembering the details, but that was the gi…

As I become more wealthy, I have started to tackle problems that I never really thought about when I wasn't as well off, things that cropped up when I thought I'd finally have peace of mind. In retrospect, the insecurity was always there, but I had the luxury of ignoring it when I was poorer. Once I started making enough not to worry about rent, the problem was then saving enough for things like retirement, setting u…

If you have a reasonable level of wealth invested in a diverse range of products you really don't have much to fear from a great depression.

A brutal and unfair characteristic of recessions is that the pain is very unevenly distributed. I've lived through several severe recessions here in the Uk and myself and my family were fine because we had comfortable jobs and incomes. Our house prices didn't appreciate as much and our wages were stagnant for a while, but we were fine. The pain falls on people who lose their incomes, lose their investments and come out of college with no jobs to chase.

I'm in no way diminishing the real hardship that these events cause, it sucks.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#372

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

I'm on the same path.

House cost 200% yearly pay... drive 2005 Toyota Corolla. I'm the poorest dressed millionare you will know. I buy two shirts a year and wear conference shirts.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#373

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

Thank you for sharing your experience and the optimism.

That fear feels similar to PTSD - we experienced something we never want us or anyone else to experience.

A lot of people don’t really understand how much space and luxuries we actually have around us. The trick is that in that modest house everything works, nothing leaks. The car starts and is safe and comfortable enough. If you take these for granted, it’s no big deal. But if you understand that this is in and of itself better than many places, boy is it satisfying when you have it. It is also terrifying that you may lose it again.

The knowledge I feel makes for the better life. The fear unfortunately poisoned it for me for a long time, but I think I’m almost past it. Hope you are as well!

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#374
I think the biggest threat to poor people, would be the ridiculous housing market. It's not just in big expensive cities, it's pretty much everywhere. Only places that are being spared, are those in destitute areas with some serious emigration problems - but those things happen for a reason (no work).

In my country (Norway), the housing market has appreciated around 5.5% ANNUALLY, compared to annual wage increase of some 2.5%. In some cities, that growth is much higher - almost 8%

We have a very decent welfare system, but a spread like that will surely create a hard class-divide between owners and renters. Renters will be forced further away from the cities, having to rely on longer commutes.

Some places it's already that bad. Certain normal salaried professions can not, and will probably never, be able to own even "starter" homes (as in small apartments), because they need to spend more and more time on saving for the down-payment (15% here) - and once they've reached their original goal, the goalpost have been moved. I'm talking about professions like teachers, nurses, etc. Not even legit poor people!

Having been raised by a poor-ish single mother, I can remember that at least in the 80s/90s, there was a lot less debt around. At least here, credit cards and consumer debt wasn't being handed out like free candy, back then. You had to rely on your salary, and then either get help from family/friends, or the welfare office. My mother had too much pride for that, even though my dads side were loaded.

These days, it seems like poor people are also getting trapped in debt. Everything is driven by debt, and every bill you fall behind on, is compounded by some fee, which is applied the second you're overdue.

I can absolutely understand why many poor people feel complete helplessness and apathy.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#375

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

One of the things I know poverty did was make me hesitate to take on a mortgage. It was such a burden to think at any moment I might not have a job and then lose everything.

I also remember being the kid who didn’t buy Nikes or the natural rubber soles to play sports on parquet, so had to do with other sports that didn’t have that requirement.

I also remember the PE teacher telling me I could not just wear short pants, I needed to get sports shorts...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#376
post #214

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

As someone who came from a fairly poor background (not half as as bad as the OP to be fair) and who has managed to "break out" I can say for sure that looking back I had a ton of lucky breaks - but, and this to me is crucial, only after I stopped worrying about what might go wrong and focus on what I could do right. If I had predicated my success on somehow getting lucky I don't think I would have made it.

So to me - and not wanting to speak for the OP of course - but the way I look at this is that the simple encouragement of "I made it and you can too" is more motivating than "I made it but then again looking back I had a ton of lucky coincidences that you probably won't have so, sure, try it, but don't expect success" :)

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#377

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

> I made it and you can too. Poverty has no color. It impacts everyone. You can't tell just by looking at someone.

I love your story. There's also a ton of people who will delight in cherry-picking your story, as justification for not expanding the social safety net. "throwaway-0987 did it, and you can too! You just need to stop being so lazy"

A few factors to consider:

- You had an aunt you could live with

- As a youth, you were wise enough to go to trade school and college

- As a youth, you were wise/careful enough to not have babies. Furthering your education would be far tougher when you have kids to take care of

- You had access to government programs such as Pell Grants, which many people would deride as being "government handouts"

- As a youth, you were wise enough to avoid crimes that would disqualify you from educational/employment opportunities in your adult life

Stories like yours are wonderful in inspiring people to make something of themselves. But it doesn't change the fact that we as a society should do more to help people who are caught in a poverty trap, especially because of poor decisions made when they were teenagers. Just because someone ran a 4-minute-mile doesn't mean it's reasonable to expect everyone to do so.

> Anyway, people think I'm 'privileged' now because I earn a lot of money, but they have no idea that I used to sleep on the floor and eat in soup lines.

As always in such discussions, privilege is on a spectrum and has many dimensions. To give an obvious example, even as a youth, you were privileged to be an American citizen, with all the rights, assistance and opportunities it entails. If you were born in the same circumstances in Mexico or Congo, you would find yourself facing a far different outcome.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm solidly upper-middle-class (typical income for this forum, I imagine). I don't think doubling my net worth would make me much happier or financially more secure. It would allow a new Tesla instead of a used BMW. And flying business class for vacation. With the state of health care/insurance in the US, despite being a ridiculous amount of money by most measures, it wouldn't allow me to retire in the 5…

Yep, the US healthcare system basically means you have to be a multimillionaire when you've retired if you want to have any semblance of a comfortable retirement, because any serious injury or health issue (which will happen at some point) will do a damn good job of sucking up most or all of that money away super fast. If you're younger at least you might get lucky with GoFundMe "insurance", but that requires your st…

This is patently false and what mikem170 says is true. My mother has little-to-no savings and had a serious issue happen where she was in the ICU for a couple weeks and then in a rehabilitation facility for a month and a half, and paid nothing.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#379

The car talk resonated with me. I'm always irked to hear someone bragging about their Volvo that's lasted them 20 years or whatever. To me, there's nothing to be proud of, you bought a luxury car and likely had it maintained by a trained mechanic regularly.

As a former used-car flipper I call it the "4Runner vs Grand Caravan" effect. And I mostly call it that because it gets under the skin of certain people.

The 4Runner starts its life in the hands of someone who can afford whatever maintenance is needs, whenever it needs it.

The Grand Caravan starts its life in the hands of someone who needs the cheapest minivan and can barely afford it let alone afford following the maintenance schedule in the manual.

The 4Runner will haul two kids and occasionally a youth soccer team.

The Grand Caravan will haul five kids and occasionally 1800lb of paver bricks.

The 4Runner will be towed behind a motorhome.

The Grand Caravan will try and tow a motorhome.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#380
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course luck plays a factor in everything everybody does. The question isn't whether luck plays a role; it's how much salience it deserves. This person made hundreds of good choices across decades to achieve the success they have, so it seems a bit perverse to focus instead on the hundreds of things outside their control.

Luck was not mentioned to diminish what the person has accomplished. It was intended to point out that their story may be difficult to replicate.

Re-read the objected to line:

"I made it and you can too."

Note that I emphasized "can" in that quote. "Can", not "will". This isn't a guarantee by throwaway-0987, it's words of encouragement to try.

On a forum that celebrates startup moonshots, I find it odd that anyone would piss on the idea that trying is worth while.

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