Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#101

Post by throwaway0a5e » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #27

American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, severed, set on fire, and beshamed. Along with Guatanamo base, it's the biggest stain on US credibility in international relations. In other words, US can't dictate its allies who can they make friends with without taking the prickly subject of Saudi Arabia, and its chainsaw prince off the table.

>American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed,

Extrapolate that out for half a second please.

When the US, the west etc. cuts ties then the KSAs of the world get driven to the arms of Russia and China and other people who will happily do business with them no matter how many journalists they dice up.

Ok, so you get the Russias and Chinas and all those other people to cut pretty much all business ties with them as well. Congratulations, you've now reduced the number of opinions they care about to zero. That's basically what North Korea is. We can't even hold them accountable for killing a member of their own royal family in broad daylight in a foreign airport. The best we, or anyone can do is threaten military force when they get way out of line (relative to their normal level of "out of line").

It's better to do business with jerks so you at least have some sway when you ask them to "please act civilized and keep that crap under the table" than to cut them to the point where your opinion means nothing to them. It won't win you easy virtue points in the comments but realpolitik isn't about the virtue points.

A couple days ago Canada's PM wouldn't endorse some legislative resolution condemning the Chinese genocide because that would violate a trade deal they signed. Germany is routinely soft of Russia because they need the energy. This approach works.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#102

Post by yowlingcat » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #98

yowlingcat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. It is, but I'm not sure it's for the reasons you are implying. First and foremost, Saudi money and oil money is an enormous part of global wealth /full stop/. That deep degree of intermixing happened decades ago; there's no putting that cat back in the bag. Asking a question like this to VCs who you are ostensibly trying to make a good first impression…

You make some really excellent points, and having done this rodeo so many times now, if I was going to do it again, I would most certainly consider alternative funding. Thankfully I was able to raise the money I wanted and feel at least that it wasn't directly tied to things I felt uncomfortable with. I also think that even though you're right, avoiding truly tainted money is near impossible, asking the question puts…

That makes a ton of sense. Also:

> I always asked after the partner pitch, so I felt like we'd dated enough that it was an acceptable question to ask (I could very well be wrong).

This is a key piece of information that does not match my presumption. At that level in the process, to continue our dating analogy, I think this kind of question or concern is a lot more reasonable. But with that said, I think it is unfortunately a concern that will be a dealbreaker for a vast majority of VCs.

With that said, the plus side is that alternate funding vehicles are more powerful than ever, whether that's crowdfunding, angels, alumni syndicates, revenue based funding, user based pre-orders. I respect that this may not have been the case when you last raised, but certainly this past year has minted an enormous amount of new HNW investors chomping at the bit to put their money into interesting causes, some for profit and some not. Dis-intermediating the VC has never been so viable as it is now, in my opinion.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#103

Post by codecamper » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

Here is an idea:

  Don't take the Saudi money.   Don't take any money.  

  Just build it, and ship it.  Work a regular job and work on your startup at night.  

  Create a product and charge very little for it.  Wipe out the competition with a better / cheaper product.  

  Once you think you are having an effect, short your competitor.  Continue to ship your as good or better product for 1/3 the cost.  

  Take down the world powers.

  Just an idea.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#104

Post by KDJohnBrown » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

The “wokeness” of the silicon valley is skin deep when it comes to money.

It’s about giving us coastal liberals fake warm and fuzzies so that we will ignore the source of our employers’ wealth.

“We are super lgbt+ friendly and our CEO is gay. We are so inclusive here is a picture of him with Mohammed BoneSaw, who would gladly behead 80% of the company for being infidels who do not follow wahhabist philosophies”.

Don’t worry. If it comes up in conversation, Somebody will quickly change the subject and say: “women can kind of drive there, and now that Ivanka made it so Israel can trade with KSA and UAE thanks to the ‘Abraham Accord’ it’s all good, man”.

The important thing is that money exchanges hands and the forms have been followed (intentional Dune reference). It doesn’t matter where that money came from as long as it isn’t Iran or North Korea.

This is about disrupting it, crushing some sweet valuations, and making a killing.

Now get back to bitching aboit the homeless people you have to step over on your way to $10 lattes and $15 avocado toasts.

Cash rules everything around me, get the money.

Dollah dollah bill y’all.

(Edits: typos. Neuropathy + small iphone screen makes accuracy difficult)

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#105

Post by ianai » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

Well Biden did say he was going to direct companies to increase semiconductor production. He says critical components need to be identified as a national security concern. A similar effort could be introduced here. Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical and introduce alternatives as a national security effort.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#106

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

epc wrote: post #69

mrweasel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it also possible that asking about the LPs, and especially saudi influence, could indicate that the founders has morals that could be “annoying” down the road?

Possibly. I mean, I'm a stereotypical East Coast liberal "elite SJW" so the founder's question would have been perfectly acceptable to me (if I were the GP of the fund). I would say that the closer a fund is to one of the coastal centers of influence …the more complex and restrictive the partnership documents have been.

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#107

Post by soheil » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

It doesn't really + it's not like it's child slave money or something, this is money from oil paid for by almost every country in the world, you know since everyone needs oil. I can't believe the hypocrisy if you really have an issue with that money, go after the countries that are purchasing their oil from them. Let me make it easy for you, here are the top three counties:

1 Japan

2 China

3 South Korea

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#108

Post by lolbiden » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:15 PM UTC

pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

If you didn't want business as usual and you wanted an Executive who had a record of peace deals in the Middle East and of standing up to China and who likely would have not been kowtowing at this time you should have voted for Trump because that's who he was

This is exactly how Biden was always expected to lead. Weak in the Middle East, a new proxy war already in Syria getting started, weak on China. This is what you voted for.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#109

Post by yowlingcat » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

codecamper wrote: post #103

Here is an idea: Don't take the Saudi money. Don't take any money. Just build it, and ship it. Work a regular job and work on your startup at night. Create a product and charge very little for it. Wipe out the competition with a better / cheaper product. Once you think you are having an effect, short your competitor. Continue to ship your as good or better product for 1/3 the cost. Take down the world powers. Just an…

I like your style. I may be skeptical about how practical this approach is, but I sure do like the style.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#110

Post by verall » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #37

_jal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trickle-down theory is not a claim that rich peoples' money flows to less-rich people. (And claiming the opposite would be absurd; rich people do not permanently take money out of circulation.) The trickle-down theory posits that the best way to get money to poor people is to flatter the rich with more money. It is a goofy excuse for tax cuts. About the only positive feature it has is that it is useful for detect…

“Best” needs to be qualified here. The simplest/fastest way to get money to poor people is to just give it to them. If you do that , what happens that’s good and what happens that’s bad? Another route is to support private employment (what trickle-down seems to be seeking). If you do that , what happens that’s good and what happens that’s bad? Unsurprisingly, people who prefer the government to be more powerful and m…

Trickle down doesn't support private employment, it just enriches wealth holders. Lowering cap gains taxes isn't convincing any new rich people to throw more money in the investment pool, it's just increasing the amount margin that capital can extract. Returns are so low that rich people just throw the money they make back into the market anyways, but now we have a ton of capital anyways chasing little returns, which creates speculative asset bubbles.