Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#21

Post by AzzieElbab » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #9

waynesonfire wrote: post #5

... what is the problem here? Investment is being made and people are better off for it. Isn't this how trickle down works?

The problem is these companies often claim liberal, progressive values and that they are forces for social good. On the other hand they are flattering and fawning to a murdering oppressive brute in person. It's an exasperating situation to be in. We need Saudi oil so we need to be able to work with them, but they are a grievous threat to freedoms and civil society globally. It's not just MBS either, look at the way g…

Would you prefer those companies took Chinese money instead? Just like the universities that produce liberal and progressive values.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#22

Post by HenryKissinger » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #11

When I was fundraising for my startup, after pitching I always emailed to ask about the LPs and if there's any Saudi/oil money in the pool. More than 10 firms just ghosted me after that email, potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. (edit:We were still able to raise over $3.5MM seed though, so don't necessarily let asking put you off.)

What's a LP?

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#23

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #13

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #10

Obviously there is reluctance to support a ruler implicated in murder. Yet Saudi Arabia's oil-based economy has been recognized as a problem and risk for the country's own innocent people and there have long been hopes of diversification into other industries. That these investment schemes are linked to the Saudi government should not be too much cause for upset, because the Saudi Arabian populace benefits from a str…

> the money brought in by the government does go to benefit the average Saudi Except the oppressed 33% of the population might not actually benefit: https://aeon.co/essays/are-the-persian-gulf-city-states-slav... > Thus attempts to deny Saudi government-led investment schemes ends up impacting normal people, not just the rulers. This is a weak argument, as it could be extended to mean that any government should be su…

The 33% of the population you talk about are foreign gastarbeiter, not Saudis. Certainly they deserve better treatment and an end to the controls compared to slavery. However, even if gastarbeiter were free, they would not necessarily be entitled to the welfare state that Saudis enjoy; it is common even in free countries that foreign workers have limited recourse to benefits.

And again, in solving the problem of exploited laborers in these countries, one must simultaneously avoid any drop in the local population's standard of living, because that will only breed resentment. I can see that my post above has offended some readers, but can't we learn lessons from the past and avoid e.g. another Iran?

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#24

Post by mark_l_watson » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

Great article. I try to stay in top of tech, economy, and politics at the global level but I must say this subject never crossed my radar before.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#25

Post by m0llusk » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

Venture capital is only involved with a fraction of development in Silicon Valley. It may be a large and very loud fraction, but it is still just a fraction. On top of that these well known attention getting firms are just another fraction of the whole. Again, very large and loud, but still just a component.

Just to call out one potentially interesting exception, much medical device development goes on in Silicon Valley. Medical development is much less sexy because it tends to be used as needed and is typically only marketed to medical providers. Medical devices need to function rigorously and demand for radical new developments is moderated by pervasive caution. As a result there is not a great deal of Saudi money in medical device development, or at least not in an obvious and influential way.

So the headline is way off. People would be well served by dealing with Silicon Valley as if it were something big and complex with many involve inputs and factors rather than something simple that you can recognize immediately because you access the Internet on a laptop and can do some basic research.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#26

Post by zozin » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

This is why we should not rely on businesses to lead the vanguard of social progress. A recent example is BLM. If you actually think most businesses that aired an ad or have a BLM webpage on their homepage actually care about advancing black interests in America, then I've got a bridge to sell you. These businesses only jumped on the bandwagon when it became untenable to say nothing, and saying _something_, anything really, is just cheap way of earning some social credential.

In the Saudi example, the dynamics are even more atrocious. Every dollar received from the Saudi sovereign fund allows that government to stave off collapse by allowing it to diversify its income streams away from fossil fuels. Every dollar returned to the House of Saud allows a regime that would've been considered repressive two centuries ago to continue repressing women, homosexuals, foreign workers, non-Muslims, etc. And those dollars were invested in companies who likely pitch themselves as trying to make the world a better place through some SaaS product. Give me a break.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#27

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, severed, set on fire, and beshamed.

Along with Guatanamo base, it's the biggest stain on US credibility in international relations.

In other words, US can't dictate its allies who can they make friends with without taking the prickly subject of Saudi Arabia, and its chainsaw prince off the table.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#28

Post by smashah » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #11

When I was fundraising for my startup, after pitching I always emailed to ask about the LPs and if there's any Saudi/oil money in the pool. More than 10 firms just ghosted me after that email, potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. (edit:We were still able to raise over $3.5MM seed though, so don't necessarily let asking put you off.)

Username does not check out

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#29

Post by nabla9 » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

Money = Power over what is spoken and done. Think about this:

MSB meets Bezos and gives him a video that installs spyware into his smartphone.

MSB taunts Bezos about his extramarital affair before it's widely known. Then his affair is leaked to the press. Bezos thinks MSB might be involved in the process that led to revealing the information.

MSB kills one of Bezos's employers. Bezos flies Turkey to meet his fiancee and wows to help.

Bryan Fogel, Oscar-winning film director and producer makes a documentary about the Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi. It takes eight months to find a streaming service for The Dissident. No streaming platform wants it. Not even Amazon Prime.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#30

Post by atestu » Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #22

neom wrote: post #11

When I was fundraising for my startup, after pitching I always emailed to ask about the LPs and if there's any Saudi/oil money in the pool. More than 10 firms just ghosted me after that email, potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. (edit:We were still able to raise over $3.5MM seed though, so don't necessarily let asking put you off.)

What's a LP?

Limited Partner. The people who invest in Venture Capital funds