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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#651

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #641
unishark wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're great, it seems like a way of obfuscating what the app really does. Your approach might work for savvy or paranoid users, but not everyone notices much beyond "contains ads" or such. Apple needs to force them to be up front from the very beginning that their stupid game or screensaver or else is also a tracking app. And boot any app that uses your phone to do anything beyond what they told you t…

Didn't Apple have an ad mocking all the access prompts in Windows Vista? My how things have changed

I guess timing and education matters. People would just click through all those Windows alerts. So they were useless. And maybe people weren't so savvy about privacy and security.

Nowadays, people are more aware about such things, so maybe you can start to assume the users are more comfortable about computing and the internet. So they should change their direction.

I'd agree with the sentiment if it was like Samsung making fun of removing a headphone jack, only to do the same thing less than a year later.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#652

Post by ogre_codes »

gameman144 wrote: post #288
Sebb767 wrote: post #34

User can still easily opt-in to tracking - so saying this is bankrupting small businesses is really admitting that they need users to be tracked without their knowledge and/or against their will . I mean, it was always kinda obvious, but seeing them confirm it out right is interesting, to say the least.

I could be wrong, but I think the argument is against the framing of "do you want this app to track you" being one-sided, rather than against an opt-in interstitial in general. E.g. if anti-vaxxers started pushing a campaign saying "doctors want to stab your arms with needles", I'd expect a similar pushback from the medical community about the perception-coloring of this phrasing (even if it's technically true). In b…

> "do you want this app to track you"

Is this better?

"This owners of this app are looking to gather as much information about you as possible so they can use it as leverage against you. They will sell that information to political agents who will use your demographics against you. There will be advertisers who know when you are having your period, when you are pregnant, and that you've searched for penis enhancing tools. While they probably won't share this information around, they will let advertisers buy adverts discretely targeting your race, gender, and sexual preferences."

Is that a better message?

I think Apple is being quite generous here myself. I'd have the dialog be bright red with a toxic logo on the yes button.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#653

Post by definitelyhuman »

raheemm wrote: post #649
firephreek wrote: post #553

"Personalized Ads for Small Businesses" What a bunch of malarkey. I've worked in ad space and the actual ability for SB's to compete is laughable. Their budgets are so comparatively small that they simply don't get the assistance necessary. They're drinking through paper straws while the big dogs swim in lakes. SB's absolutely need a platform to compete, but I'm absolutely incredulous that FB is that platform, much l…

I know of a small business in upstate NY that gets 80% of their sales from FB ads. Without FB, this business which also has a retail store, would certainly be having a lot more of a rough time. And they are not an isolated story. I know of at least 5 other small businesses that similarly generate from 25% to 70% of sales via FB. It's given these small businesses a way to compete against bigger competitors.

The impact of these changes on FB ads depends on what kind of ads you run - VBO, AAA, and LAL will be challenged. But interest, geo, and demo targeting will continue as is. None of these iOS changes affect FB’s ability to serve ads, nor small business’ ability to run ads and find customers. It’s the tracking of activity and the deeper funnel events that is changing, not advertising for small business

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#654

Post by zepto »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #641
unishark wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're great, it seems like a way of obfuscating what the app really does. Your approach might work for savvy or paranoid users, but not everyone notices much beyond "contains ads" or such. Apple needs to force them to be up front from the very beginning that their stupid game or screensaver or else is also a tracking app. And boot any app that uses your phone to do anything beyond what they told you t…

Didn't Apple have an ad mocking all the access prompts in Windows Vista? My how things have changed

This is nothing like that.

Vista popped up inscrutable boxes for all kinds of actions, with no explanation.

This is a small number of permissions, each explained clearly.

If Microsoft had done it this way, nobody would have laughed.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#655

Post by zepto »

m463 wrote: post #615
ogre_codes wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can disable almost all of those things in one way or another. The problem is all of these things you mention are also useful for things users want. Often they are useful for things users want inside their applications. Nobody wants a neutered OS.

To disable ibeacon you turn off bluetooth and/or location services. I don't know about find my - it may locate other people's stuff no matter what you do. You can't really disable deep linking. If you get a text message with an amazon link, the amazon app will see it. It is not apple's way to advertise this capability is available, and give you granular control.

Find my is off by default. You are asked if you want to enable it.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#657

Post by zepto »

mektrik wrote: post #608
nicoburns wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Apple's ad business track users though? It seems to me that an ad business shouldn't need to in order to be effective.

It does - it provides advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts.

> advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts.

No it doesn’t.

It provides aggregate statistics on downloads, just like any analytics server.

No data on users is shared.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#658

Post by zepto »

rorykoehler wrote: post #495
stingraycharles wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that Apple executives realize that privacy is one of the unique USPs of Apple compared to their main competitor, since the value exchange between Apple and their customers is simpler (customer pays Apple money, Apple delivers hardware/software). Now that so much news has spread about these privacy additions, Apple selling out will actively hurt this image they have spent a lot of time building. It’s going t…

I thought that until I realised Apple also have a billion dollar ads business

An ad business that doesn’t rely on accumulating user data for targeting.

Ads do not always mean user tracking.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#659

Post by zepto »

kml wrote: post #561
zonethundery wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Apple is unfairly privileging its own ads business. It's a tough cookie though; the offending behavior is simply Apple's truthful (if arguably hyperbolic) notice and consent popup.

iAds will definitely be privileged. If you read the documentation on what is available to Apple vs. others, you will see Apple's own ad business will definitely benefit from this.

iAds will definitely not be able to track user behavior within apps the way Facebook does.

If there is some documentation you claim shows iAds being privileged, please post a link.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#660

Post by zepto »

Nextgrid wrote: post #646
katbyte wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shift everyone to a paid what? There is no alternative to Facebook lol

The advertising-funded business model being unviable would pave the way for an alternative to appear.

It already is ‘unviable’ for most companies because Facebook and Google dominate it.

It wouldn’t become unviable for Facebook because even with a smaller number of users consenting to tracking they would still have a gigantic ad market.

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