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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#631

Post by minsc__and__boo »

kube-system wrote: post #564
minsc__and__boo wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole. Being a separate device, as you said, means the phones would still work independent of Apple. The Chinese government would block updates and sales, hencecustomers would blame them, not Apple, because Apple was incentivized with customers instead of the government moving forward.

Basically everyone with an iPhone uses an Apple ID. It is certainly not hyperbole that the devices usability would be very severely impacted without access to Apple's servers.

They would lose iCloud access. That's what the Chinese Government threatened them with.

It is not "bricking phones" as you said. As much as you don't like this fact, Apple had a choice and decided to put the Chinese government before it's users.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#632

Post by macintux »

r00fus wrote: post #619
prepend wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SE is fantastic as it’s much cheaper and works well. I switched from an XS and years of latest models and forgot how much I love thumb reader over face. Apple Pay in particular is better with thumb reader instead of the tap, look at, tap again buggy process.

FaceID is great for me (and my aging parents), but not for some use cases (wearing masks, or starting usage while in pocket). I could really get behind having both (esp if I could combined).

Masks will be solved if the user is wearing a Watch after the next update. Like the Mac itself, the Watch can unlock an iPhone.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#633

Post by mr_toad »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #78
move-on-by wrote: post #44

I don't have Facebook and I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging. However, seeing this response from Facebook has gotten me very excited for this update. There must be more to it then Apple's generic 'Most Advanced Update Ever' marketing. I'm still skeptical of Apple's commitment to privacy, but I'm certainly happy to get this update. Apple should thank Facebook for the free marketing.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

The more likely scenario in the long run is that Apple is forced to allow alternative App stores, which will probably be riddled with malware and spyware.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#634

Post by newscracker »

mektrik wrote: post #608
nicoburns wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Apple's ad business track users though? It seems to me that an ad business shouldn't need to in order to be effective.

It does - it provides advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts.

Please provide links or citations showing what information about a user is shared with advertiser.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#635

Post by newscracker »

arrosenberg wrote: post #472
buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

Unless FB is preparing an incredibly ironic antitrust/market competition case against Apple, I'm not sure what they'd have standing on.

Facebook has been reported as assisting Epic Games in its lawsuit and been preparing for months for lawsuits against Apple. For the kind of company it is, it might pull a “Peter Thiel on Gawker” move, though it won’t reflect well on its name. But not enough people seem to care much about Facebook’s practices or what it does. After the uproar over WhatsApp’s upcoming policy change on data sharing with Facebook, several people moved to other chat platforms. But I still see those people stuck with WhatsApp and also using Facebook and Instagram even while knowing that these are all part of the same company.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#636

Post by breuleux »

brokencode wrote: post #480
tbrock wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think Apple would bat an eye if Facebook decided to not publish their software on their platform.

I think they would. Facebook products are a huge part of any app ecosystem, and without them, Apple customers would be pissed. Ecosystem concerns aren’t as relevant today, since both Android and iOS have everything you’d want, but in the olden days of Blackberry, Microsoft, and many other mobile operating system vendors trying to compete, they were always seriously hampered by their lack of ecosystem.

Apple customers generate a large chunk of the content there is to see in Facebook products, so losing them would diminish engagement across all remaining platforms. If competitors can capitalize on the opportunity, that could very well trigger a death spiral that would destroy Facebook within mere months, whereas Apple could weather that easily.

Few things could flat out annihilate Facebook, but punching a large hole in their network is probably one of them.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#637

Post by newscracker »

move-on-by wrote: post #116
buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

I know nothing about legal system, but it seems like Apple could make an argument that they are helping their apps be GDPR and CCPA compliant? That could explain the strange wording "Ask app not to track" - apps can still track, just not as much as before, so perhaps more of a compliance permission. Just speculation.

I don’t have the link handy, but Apple’s policies on this require apps not to track users across apps through other means if a user chooses “Ask App not to Track” at the prompt. The prompt text is just to show that Apple cannot technically prevent tracking even when a user tells the app they don’t want to be tracked across apps. There are a lot of shady practices being spread through common/popular SDKs used by apps.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#638

Post by newscracker »

calciphus wrote: post #141
atonse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually buy a ton of data from others. So they are encouraging a market that thrives by selling our data without our informed consent.

I hadn't heard of this recently. Where could I read more about it?

Not GP. I don’t want to link to one or two specific sources, but you can find many reports by searching for “Facebook buying offline data”.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#639

Post by newscracker »

dhdhhdd wrote: post #226

How can an app track activities in other apps? Is it only possible if those other apps use the same tracking networks, or can the app track activities in _any_ other app? How does this work? What can facebook extract today? (I'm surprised a bit, i thought phones offer app isolation). The only things that comes to mind is to correlate device ids from different apps if the apps use the same analytics/advertising networ…

> The only things that comes to mind is to correlate device ids from different apps if the apps use the same analytics/advertising networks.

A long time ago, device IDs were available to apps. But that changed because those are typically immutable and the user has no control on revealing a different one to apps. So the makers of the operating systems brought a new identifier (IDFA in Apple’s OSes) that can be controlled through settings. Even before the forthcoming iOS update, you could just turn off cross app tracking completely by turning on Settings->Privacy->Advertising->Limit Ad Tracking in previous versions. But this was off by default, meaning tracking was allowed unless disabled by the user. Now it’s an explicit prompt when an app asks for the IDFA. The IDFA can be used to uniquely identify and connect a user across apps.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#640

Post by unishark »

phabora wrote: post #585
firephreek wrote: post #553

"Personalized Ads for Small Businesses" What a bunch of malarkey. I've worked in ad space and the actual ability for SB's to compete is laughable. Their budgets are so comparatively small that they simply don't get the assistance necessary. They're drinking through paper straws while the big dogs swim in lakes. SB's absolutely need a platform to compete, but I'm absolutely incredulous that FB is that platform, much l…

Small business is just a propaganda tool. The idea has some allure, maybe because it reminds Americans of their priomordial beginning as settlers, homesteaders, yeomans, craftsmen (or so the stories go).

There's also the allure of the local restaurant/store/etc versus the national chain, that everyone can see all around them even in the present day.
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