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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#971

Post by dmt0 »

mnsc wrote: post #903
nkrisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

Am I really that unique in never having used the trackpad on a laptop at all, other than a last resort being forced to use some weird non-Lenovo thing without a nipple? Always an external mouse in the backpack and the nipple as a fallback.

It's just that you've never had a laptop with a usable trackpad. I also carried a mouse when I had a Thinkpad.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#972

Post by dmt0 »

dakial1 wrote: post #941
gburdell3 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to be software. I have a ThinkPad that I recently installed macOS on (not advocating hackintosh, but it's a fun project nonetheless) and the trackpad feels every bit as good as a real Mac. Smooth scrolling, smooth gesture recognition, everything just feels good. The hardware is capable of processing the gestures, but the non-Apple software just does a terrible job of making it feel good to use.

It it software. As they did to ios, the MacOs has highest priority to all interface actions.That's why the scrolling on ios and MacOs is usually very smooth. The interface get the highest priority so if the computer is struggling with lots of simulaneous processes, the interface still will feel smooth. Very smart solution to prioritize UX. Why they didn't do the same on windows/android? No idea.

Also good defaults. In fact they don't even have certain settings in MacOS. For example you can't change the pointer acceleration, but the default one is just perfect.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#973

Post by likeclockwork »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #964
likeclockwork wrote: post #962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even called a "trackpad" outside of Apple machines? I'm pretty sure they're called "touchpads" generally. So maybe "trackpad" is inherently referent to Apple.

> Is it even called a "trackpad" outside of Apple machines? Yes. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/laptop-faqs/what-is-a-trac... https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-trackpad-settings/... http://support.blackberry.com/kb/articleDetail?articleNumber... https://edgeup.asus.com/2019/the-asus-screenpad-2-0-lets-the... https://wikidiff.com/trackpad/touchpad Trackpad and touchpad are generic synonyms according to ever…

I'm not sure that they actually are. Touchpad was the name I always heard for that kind of input, remember they're not only used in computers.

I don't have the data but I think this is like the motherboard / logic board split. In other words "trackpad" may be Apple for "touchpad".

Re: The Framework Laptop

#974

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

likeclockwork wrote: post #973
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it even called a "trackpad" outside of Apple machines? Yes. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/laptop-faqs/what-is-a-trac... https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-trackpad-settings/... http://support.blackberry.com/kb/articleDetail?articleNumber... https://edgeup.asus.com/2019/the-asus-screenpad-2-0-lets-the... https://wikidiff.com/trackpad/touchpad Trackpad and touchpad are generic synonyms according to ever…

I'm not sure that they actually are. Touchpad was the name I always heard for that kind of input, remember they're not only used in computers. I don't have the data but I think this is like the motherboard / logic board split. In other words "trackpad" may be Apple for "touchpad".

> I don't have the data but

I gave you data by showing links where other companies like Blackberry, Lenovo, Microsoft, and Asus use the word "trackpad" themselves for their own devices. Lenovo even cutely capitalizes the P to fit their ThinkPad branding. You could also google around and see random people on reddit and elsewhere talking about the "trackpads" on their dells, hps, vaios, matebooks, and so on.

I'm not saying that "touchpad" isn't more common, but the evidence _clearly_ shows that "trackpad" isn't exclusive to Apple devices.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#975

Post by wing-_-nuts »

nrp wrote: post #854
reasonabl_human wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the business case of universal pre-built inventory, but offering a Linux version out of the box signals that all hardware is compatible and fully functional... supported at a first-party level. More and more developers in big tech companies using Linux just expect it to work and aren’t interested in monkeying around with drivers and configs.. not to say they can’t, but why increase friction for your dev setup?…

Great feedback. We will definitely at minimum post guides and compatibility test results for the most popular distros and ensure that at least Ubuntu LTS has a straightforward path to full hardware functionality.

Good man. I bought my XPS 13 explicitly because of dells 'developer edition'. I don't need my OS pre-installed, but I do want it fully validated and working. Make a 14" and I just might give this laptop to my parents and buy yours.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#976

Post by nkrisc »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #572
nkrisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

I care a lot too - but I care about a lot of other features, too, and refuse to buy Apple. My conclusion was to disable the trackpad and always carry an external mouse. I do a lot of CAD work and there's nothing that compares to a real mouse for speed and precision. I'll use my Trackpoint nib in a pinch, but the trackpad ecosystem is so bad that I just write it off entirely. Yeah, keeping a mouse on hand is annoying,…

That's fair, but on my personal computer when I'm lounging on the couch, a mouse isn't going to cut it. I'm also talking specifically about laptops. Apple laptops have the best trackpad experience I've ever used. So my personal laptops will always be Apple until I find something better.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#977

Post by Qwertious »

ogre_codes wrote: post #599
tomtheelder wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the SD card example encapsulates the issue perfectly. I'm pretty sure that in 2021 that is an _extreme_ niche use case. I feel like only extremely serious photographers and perhaps a particular slice of musicians use them. It makes absolutely no sense for them to have that built into the laptop. 99% of people who own Macbooks or whatever don't own an SD card dongle because they don't need it. However, and ext…

I generally think the whole dongle issue is over exaggerated, you can mostly just buy new cables (once) and be done with it. The SD reader is one of the big exceptions I think. If you always need a cable to do something, you can just replace the cable with a USB-C one and be done with it. Having an integrated reader is handy for a fair number of people and it’s something where you don’t otherwise need an adaptor.

The new cables means your cables aren't backwards compatible though - one day you need to plug in a display port cable to someone's desktop/old laptop and you don't have the cable on you, because you replaced it to avoid dongles.

Dongles are both cheaper and more flexible than replacing the cable, at the cost of having a slightly shittier experience.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#978

Post by sixothree »

airbreather wrote: post #760
sixothree wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me introduce you to the developers whose primary machine is a laptop without a mouse. Or a second screen.

Ha, no second screen, next you will be telling me you made it yourself out of rocks and sand.

To be fair, I am not describing myself. I have 4 monitors across three machines in my office.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#979

Post by imwillofficial »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #795
imwillofficial wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clearly it's heavily used, especially in professional/corporate environments." It's so clear that they removed it from their lineup? Clearly you're wrong. I have two Macbooks work/home, and a USB-C dock has been life changing in its awesomeness. And yes my dock has RJ-45 ;)

> It's so clear that they removed it from their lineup? Clearly you're wrong. They also removed scissor switches, sd card readers and hdmi. But they're bringing those back (or have already), so they don't seem like a good authority to appeal to here.

Have they? Their newest laptops are USB-C only.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#980

Post by Epskampie »

Please consider making the left and right arrow keys half-height, so you can easily feel them out by hand. Macbook recently made this change with good reason. I’ve got the older model, and it’s hell if you’re used to a standard keyboard.
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