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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#491

Post by sebasvisser »

brokencode wrote: post #480
tbrock wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think Apple would bat an eye if Facebook decided to not publish their software on their platform.

I think they would. Facebook products are a huge part of any app ecosystem, and without them, Apple customers would be pissed. Ecosystem concerns aren’t as relevant today, since both Android and iOS have everything you’d want, but in the olden days of Blackberry, Microsoft, and many other mobile operating system vendors trying to compete, they were always seriously hampered by their lack of ecosystem.

You’d be surprised how many fb users (mostly less technical) just use a browser to access fb.. They don’t need an app in the App Store to do so.. So this might actually be a fight against the strange people working at Facebook that will get them to rethink what it is they do everyday..

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#492

Post by Nextgrid »

Spivak wrote: post #457
nicky0 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, devs don't buy customers from apple. Customers buy apps, and Apple takes a commission. No money flows from Developer to Apple (apart from to 100$ annual fee if you want to be anal about it).

No they buy access to customers. You can't sell to Apple's customer base unless you give them 30% of gross. The world where Apple charges that 30% commission to the devs after the sale or collects it from the customer during the sale is irrelevant. We fork over a lot of money to Apple for the privilege of selling to their customers.

I think that nowadays most profitable software is cross-platform and is also available on other platforms, thus their developers see access to the iOS market as added value rather than their primary customer acquisition channel.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#493

Post by texasbigdata »

nicky0 wrote: post #344
texasbigdata wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Customer” is the small business that actually pays them revenue. So not true.

That's a wrong view. Customer in app market is the buyer of the app. Both Apple and devs are suppliers who each take a split. (Devs supply app itself, Apple supplies infrastructure and supporting services.)

Tell me more. So what would the nomenclature for the actual revenue generating side. I guess more generally, in a two sided marketplace is there specific verbiage for each “customer”?

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#494

Post by prepend »

srcreigh wrote: post #252
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #11

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

Don't forget that ~5% of Apple's revenue is a payment from Google to be default search engine. I still haven't heard anything about a privacy consent screen regarding the default Google search box. Can't fix the whole world all at once, but Apple is not uncompromising in their privacy stance by any means.

I don’t think this is applicable. While Google is the default search, safari blocks tracking from Google like all other sites.

Now if Apple exempted Google from Adblock and cross site cookies that would be a different story.

A Google search on an iPhone and a Google search on an android produces very different data gathered by Google.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#495

Post by rorykoehler »

stingraycharles wrote: post #444
rchaud wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's more likely than any kind of legal injunction is that FB and Apple will come to a "mutual understanding". Maybe Facebook will license Apple Maps (for a princely sum) and make some symbolic compromise on data collection that lets Apple water down the permission dialogs.

I’d argue that Apple executives realize that privacy is one of the unique USPs of Apple compared to their main competitor, since the value exchange between Apple and their customers is simpler (customer pays Apple money, Apple delivers hardware/software). Now that so much news has spread about these privacy additions, Apple selling out will actively hurt this image they have spent a lot of time building. It’s going t…

I thought that until I realised Apple also have a billion dollar ads business

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#496

Post by rorykoehler »

brokencode wrote: post #480
tbrock wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think Apple would bat an eye if Facebook decided to not publish their software on their platform.

I think they would. Facebook products are a huge part of any app ecosystem, and without them, Apple customers would be pissed. Ecosystem concerns aren’t as relevant today, since both Android and iOS have everything you’d want, but in the olden days of Blackberry, Microsoft, and many other mobile operating system vendors trying to compete, they were always seriously hampered by their lack of ecosystem.

I’d be delighted as it would give me an excuse to not use WhatsApp

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#497

Post by sodality2 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #495
stingraycharles wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that Apple executives realize that privacy is one of the unique USPs of Apple compared to their main competitor, since the value exchange between Apple and their customers is simpler (customer pays Apple money, Apple delivers hardware/software). Now that so much news has spread about these privacy additions, Apple selling out will actively hurt this image they have spent a lot of time building. It’s going t…

I thought that until I realised Apple also have a billion dollar ads business

The problem is Apple relies on hardware sales. FB's entire business from the top down is ad money. And source for a billion dollar ad business? That sounds way higher than my initial impression. (And google paying to be the default SE is not advertising imo)

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#498

Post by hackmiester »

zarq wrote: post #390
tcoff91 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps cannot use the microphone on iOS 14 without your awareness. There is a little dot that will show up at the top of the screen if an app has recently used microphone or camera. Hopefully this can assuage your paranoia.

The dot seems to not be interactive, i.e. I won't be able to find out which app it was, and what it did. But it's a start!

The dot is just for the foreground app. If a background app uses the mic, your clock turns red (for recording) or green (for a phone call) in an even more obvious way, and tapping it takes you to the app that is doing so.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#499

Post by goatsi »

tmccrary55 wrote: post #296
tmccrary55 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana...

It's funny how a link to Facebook's recent data selling scandal, in a discussion about whether Facebook sells data, gets voted down.

Because that wasn't a data selling scandal? Cambridge Analytica didn't buy data on millions of people from Facebook, they harvested it for free due to lax permissions.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#500

Post by laurent92 »

villasv wrote: post #414
NoodleIncident wrote: post #400

> Some apps, like Facebook, allow for some data tracking to be manually disabled. But by default, it is turned on. That gives the company reams of personal data on who we are and what we are doing, which it then vacuums up, packages and sells. Facebook would be giving away money if they ever actually sold your data. As everyone here knows, they use that data to target the ads that they sell. Do journalists phrase it…

I agree that the most used phrasing of "selling your data" is factually wrong. On the other hand, I think it is approximately true enough for the general public. I don't expect the usual reader to understand how that data is commoditized inside Facebook to serve better ads. Do you remember how a US Senator had a hard time understanding how ads allowed Facebook to remain free? People will not grasp without significant…

But that still means a real estate agency doesn’t have my address, and the painter doesn’t have the list of shoes I have bought.

Only being able to show me ads in some apps is a comically narrow way of way of “having sold all my data”, akin to “Thugs have sold my house” for “temporarily skinny-dipping in my swimming pool while we were on holidays”. Not nice, but they didn’t sell my house, and Facebook didn’t sell my data, just told an advertiser they could put a picture in a window where there would be house-owners passing by.

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