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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#571

Post by tdeck »

JPKab wrote: post #343
sudosteph wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's destroyed, another retailer will take it's place. I worked at Target back in the day, and I still remember the onboarding videos they showed us. Half of it was ridiculous drivel about how much they love employees and support LGBT and minorities, and the other half was literal anti-union propaganda and fear-mongering. When it came right down to it, Target is just as happy to treat human workers as disposable t…

I used to do extensive data science work with various retailers, including Target, Walmart, and Amazon. Compared to Walmart, Target is absolutely abysmal on many fronts. The amount of wasted fuel caused by their horrifically inept logistics makes Walmart look like the Sierra Club. And they were the model for substituting low-impact inclusion messaging in place of actually treating workers decently. I live near Boulde…

> Compared to Walmart, Target is absolutely abysmal on many fronts. The amount of wasted fuel caused by their horrifically inept logistics makes Walmart look like the Sierra Club.

I suppose this explains why my orders from target.com always seem to come in an absurd number of separately shipped boxes. Once I ordered a small set of nonperishable grocery items and they were delivered in maybe 7 boxes - including one toasted sized box that held only a single can of tomato paste and an air pillow. It seems to me like they must lose money on many orders.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#572

Post by okamiueru »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #530
okamiueru wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain or elaborate? I'm in utter confusion at every hacker news discussion that touches on unions. I live in a country that is heavily unionised. Its almost unheard of to not be in one. And, y the benefits are so prevalent, that I'm just confused reading the things I read on hacker news. It's just, weird. I have my suspicious, but I'd have to keep those to myself due to the guidelines here.

Key word in your comment: “different country .” Unions in the US tend to have an image of bureaucracy and not actually helping. For example, I worked at a union grocery store job a few years back and the union did jack squat for quite a lot of us. No benefits, minimum wage (well, 10¢ or so over), etc. My experience is obviously not representative of unions as a whole, but experiences such as these do taint one’s view…

Surely that is the fault of that union, and not the concept of it in of itself? There seems to be such a heavy effort put to make unions look bad, that I don't doubt for a second that it isn't effective.

But the basic idea of it is that the employees have a lot more negotiation power collectively than alone. The whole goal is to have a fair compensation for work. Why would anyone work for a wage that isn't livable? It's more a hypothetical mind you, but with a collective bargaining power, no one would. I don't think there is a minimum wage in my country, but I'm pretty sure store clerks make enough to live a decent life.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#573

Post by bitdizzy »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #558
bitdizzy wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The media helped the Bush administration manufacture consent for the second gulf war. The infamous lies peddled on every major news channel and newspaper are recorded for all time. Parenti wrote Inventing Reality and Chomsky wrote Manufacturing Consent in the 80's. Your examples of lies that that you believe demonstrate how especially bad media is today just reveal that you only notice certain exaggerations or interp…

My politics are left wing. I could no doubt pick some fox news examples if I watched/read that outlet. The media may have helped Bush’s war, but they weren’t uniformly conservative and they also didn’t tell overt, easily verifiable lies. It’s one thing to report that the intelligence community says there are WMDs, and quite another thing to outright lie about the contents of a memo or a video which are publicly avail…

You're not left wing. You're a liberal.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#574

Post by okamiueru »

eldavido wrote: post #535
okamiueru wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain or elaborate? I'm in utter confusion at every hacker news discussion that touches on unions. I live in a country that is heavily unionised. Its almost unheard of to not be in one. And, y the benefits are so prevalent, that I'm just confused reading the things I read on hacker news. It's just, weird. I have my suspicious, but I'd have to keep those to myself due to the guidelines here.

Data point: wages are higher in the US than most other countries, even for equivalent jobs. I routinely see development jobs in Europe offering 40-50k Euros that would pay double that in dollars in the US, and the US also tends to have lower taxes. How does your country's wages compare? I do think the US works more hours (look at OECD data for this) but I think US companies are managed better in general, and the gene…

What unusual metrics and arguments. What do you mean wages are higher? I took a quick look, and there are indeed laws for minimum wage, but depends on fields, and various criteria (education level, etc), but generally speaking at around 25 usd.

Taxes is a confusing point, because, paying taxes can (should?) distribute wealth. We are after all talking about minimum wage here... General high taxes is something that benefits this group of people the most. You pay comparatively less of income as tax, and you get to spend it on other things than health care, or education (as its mostly handled by tax money).

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#575

Post by noxer »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #527
tharkun__ wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why multiple people read his comment as pro Pinkertons (pro AMZN etc.) I read it as "Yep and Amazon are not the only large company that use them, so watch out! If Facebook employees ever want to unionize, Pinkertons might/will be sent after them too".

People read what they want to hear. I’ve posted comments that make it clear I support stuff, but because I (essentially) argued devil’s advocate, I was downvoted. I can only assume it’s because I’m supposedly showing sympathy to the other side (even if I’m not).

The HN bubble is real and as biased as any other internet community.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#576

Post by devenvdev »

secfirstmd wrote: post #443
staticautomatic wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.

Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook

I think moderators should have responded to the replies here, this is why "assume good intent" or however it's called is in HN rules.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#577

Post by rtpg »

sidlls wrote: post #374
SilasX wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I don’t understand the outrage. What’s offensive about instructions on how to fill out a ballot above and beyond the fact of them asking you to vote no? The GGP seemed to think that there was something particularly bad about the detailed six page instructions. But the GP correctly pointed out they do the same thing in regular government elections (to milk as many voters as they can).

Your analogy is off: if you suggested that government officials sent police offers with instructions on how to vote it'd be closer to what is the case when an employer instructs its employees to do something work related (vote "no" on the union, in this case).

Right, that’s what I’m saying. Maybe this was meant for GP?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#578

Post by gremlinsinc »

fxtentacle wrote: post #121
fireball_blaze wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

Wow, just wow. "Don’t buy that dinner, don’t buy those school supplies, don’t buy those gifts because you won’t have that almost $500 you paid in dues." It seems Amazon's main argument for why people shouldn't join a union is that Amazon's wages are so low that they cannot financially afford to. That's almost like saying "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

Jeff Bezos is now seriously contemplating changing this to their company slogan: "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#579

Post by gremlinsinc »

azinman2 wrote: post #236
andrepd wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

Simpsons FTW

Historians will be comparing the Simpson's to the Delphi Oracle in Ancient Greece, except one was pretty damn accurate.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#580

Post by gremlinsinc »

dheera wrote: post #209
fireball_blaze wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

Maybe someone should start a second union without dues? That would leave Amazon with no way to argue.

Crazy idea: Decentralized DAO platform on blockchain that essentially has an automatic union for all companies and all employees. Pick your company/union join get access to anonymized matrix chat, feeds, emails, meetings, etc... your id and employment status would be validated by verifiers, and you can organize without anybody knowing who you are if you want.

There could be optional dues, as well as some built in DeFi applications for investing in blockchain that could pay a dividend to the unions and their leaders.

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