This is really cool. What does 1.5mm keyboard mean ? Does it mean 15mm, because 1.5 mm is too small to feel at the fingers.
The Framework Laptop
831–840 of 1001 posts
Re: The Framework Laptop
#832I don't see any mention of the firmware and drivers efforts for this. Firmware and drivers always end up more difficult to deal with than expected. The Fairphone company was surprised by difficulties upgrading and patching android without support from their BSP vendor, causing many months delays of updates _and_ years shorter support life than they were planning for their earlier models. I purchased the Purism Librem…
Our Embedded Controller firmware is based on chromium ec, and we're using a mature off the shelf BIOS solution shipping in other notebooks today. We chose our key components with driver stability across both Windows and Linux in mind. We know this is something we have to get right to deliver a credible competitor to all the great notebooks already in the market, so it is something we focused on from the start.
Will the user be able to replace custom BIOS, that is a killer feature no notebook or laptop offers ?
Re: The Framework Laptop
#833Earlier quoted context omitted.
Key travel isn't everything. The layout is important as well. This is the best layout humanity ever invented: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/c/0/csm_... Classic arrow keys, separate volume buttons, separate back/forward/pageup/pagedown, F1-F12 as the primary functions, …
See, I disagree, I use home/end/pageup/pagedown all the time, and having them separate in an awkward spot is annoying. I prefer having them overlaid on the arrow keys, with fn to access them. IMHO that is the one area laptop keyboards can superior to full size keyboards.
This is what makes newer ThinkPad keyboard layouts great at least in terms of arrow keys - the useless icon keys from the GP's posted image are now PgUp/PgDown, meaning you can access at least two out of the four without annoying two-handed operation. Home/End can still be bound to arrow keys plus modifier, but even there it's nice to have a dedicated key available.
Basically, full-size arrow keys are what really makes the difference, and at that point you could get the best of both worlds anyway.
(Let's not talk about other recent/misguided ThinkPad keyboard developments though.)
Re: The Framework Laptop
#834Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. I still dream to meet the one who made such 'wise' decision to tell him what I think about it personally! >USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. I am…
I'm not sure what you need "tons of adaptors and wires" for since you're only talking about SD cards, but to address that one example: what percentage of laptop users are professional photographers? One percent? A quarter? There are at least six fashion photographers in my apartment building and even I know they're a negligible slice of the population. Apple should not be designing their laptops around the needs of 1…
Before going any further you do realise that there is enough space for micro-sd-card reader even on raspberryPi Zero?
And I hope you do realise that I am talking about sd-card reader just for the most obvious example, it doesn't mean I have nothing more to say or wish from laptop.
I think this is not about what majority wishes when you develop a tool that you label as 'Pro', it's about what device can and cannot do and as such what Man can and can't do using it!
>I'm not sure what you need "tons of adaptors and wires" for since you're only talking about SD cards...
First of all it is a real mobile usage. And I mean serious usage 'on the go' (and it could be 3 month + of 'the go') My laptop is the only machine I have and could have in such scenario. And as far as I know this is exactly what laptop was meant to be - device for mobile work.
My use-cases are:
I do Software Development:
- Developing software for iOS: Which means I need to have one of each kind for testing iPhone/iPad/iPadPro and connect each of them periodically. Only for that purpose more ports are justified because I would prefer to have 4 at least to connect all 3 iOS devices plus hard_drive for backup etc. If there is additional monitor around that I could use I would love to use it which means I need HDMI/display port.
- Developing software for MacOS. I am developing FileManager for Mac and few other projects on the go. Which means Xcode and resources it requires. Also external monitor port hdmi/dp - any I can find around depending where I am.
- Developing software for GNU/Linux. which means sometimes a need for Ethernet port to track down issues.
- Using Terminal for remote connections to raspberryPi/s which means wired connections when there is a need of speed or some problem. It also means I use sd-card-reader for this too.
- Developing software for reMarkable tablet. which means VM GNU/Linux machine on Mac which requires more_storage/more_memory/more_processing_power and again free USB-A port to connect rM for speedy connection/charging.
- Making some hardware projects on the go: Arduino/ESP32/8266/raspberyyPi etc. which means periodically connecting those and I must have cable connections when something breaks and wifi would not help. I also do not need additional dongle in the chain when tracking down some problems. It saves a lot of time to have less items to check as the check itself takes time * number of times you do it. Needless to say that those devices barely work with simplest USB 2.0
I do Music:
- I play Guitar. So I need to connect a Guitar for recording/performing, which means I need line-in .
- I sing and if I wish to record it I also need external mic which means one more usb/line-in.
- I play Piano: If it's real piano the same needs for mic if it's electronic piano - perhaps line-in, if it's midi - usb.
You know at least one line-in would be great just in case I wish to connect something in creative situation for creative purposes.
I do massive Photography/Videography:
- Some times work as photographer/videographer. I have Nikon Camera with sd-cards and need periodically but intensively transfer of huge Video Footages.
Wifi for such sizes is simply not an option. I also need ports to connect few drives at the same time.
I need diff types of ports if I work with other people and usually they are not equipped. Again the difference sometimes: it's done or not due to some dumb limitations.
- I do Argentinian Tango Teaching/Dancing/Performing.
Which means I need remote control to stop/play music during the class. Where the IR port that worked fine?
I need wired audio connection to whatever-audio-system-i-can-find and if my bluetooth speaker doesn't_work/not_enough for certain halls . I would also need HDMI/DP/DVI or even VGA port to have external screen connected.
I never know what screen will be available at some place. Again the difference would be: It's doable/Its' not doable.
- I also need to relax and watch movies some times and I also wish to do it with friends sometimes which means HTMI/DP/DVI/VGA whatever we can find.
I do not know your use case but as you can imagine with all that activity the last thing I need is another dumb dongle to deal with.
Since I travel with my guitar I have 'literally' no space in the bag for adapter and wires because most precious things I have to take with me on the plane and I have to pack them really tight if I wish to avoid boarding complications.
I simply have no space in the bag nor space in my mind to deal with another stupid problem like dongle/adapter.
There are projects that require all of theses use-cases simultaneously. And since I wish to do things with top quality possible I need all the equipment to work perfectly too because I relay on it and if it doesn't work it usually means something will not be done. I am sure any pro would confirm that. I simply cannot afford having some stupid dongle. Believe me. I need MacBookPro and it should be really 'Pro'!
Again, I do not know your use-case but for me some people are just barely using laptop as laptop at all for goodness sake.
And if we are talking about 'Pro' shouldn't we listen to people like me who is literally using all the features to the full extent.
These are my use-cases and what are yours?
Re: The Framework Laptop
#835Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caveat: may not include an awesome trackpad driver.
If it includes a GPU driver, then the trackpad driver is trivial compared to that. Actually manufacturing the trackpad hardware might be difficult/expensive, but since that's already a given, the driver can be tweaked in tons of ways to fit the regular macOS experience...
True, but then why don't we have awesome Linux trackpad drivers for Intel Macbooks?
Re: The Framework Laptop
#836“At Framework, we believe the time has come for consumer electronics products that are designed to last.” Is this another way of saying Moore’s law is dead?
I think it's another way of saying "We're bringing back non-soldered RAM/storage and standard slots and not chasing after thinness for thinness sake".
Re: The Framework Laptop
#837What led framework to choose Intel CPUs over AMD ones? Did it simplify the design of the system?
If I had to make an guess from how they're describing the I/O, USB4 would be the immediate limitation.
This would also suggest that once AMD gets their USB4 act together (hopefully starting with Rembrandt?), Mobile Ryzen should become an option.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#838Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caveat: may not include an awesome trackpad driver.
If it includes a GPU driver, then the trackpad driver is trivial compared to that. Actually manufacturing the trackpad hardware might be difficult/expensive, but since that's already a given, the driver can be tweaked in tons of ways to fit the regular macOS experience...
Apple’s trackpad driver is massive, I think. Do not underestimate the amount of detailed work that went into it.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#839Finally! I hope this company will be insanely successful. We need more companies like this focusing on repairability.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#840The spec says "Intel Xe Graphics". Any more details on this GPU? Is it this one - https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/211013/... ?
They say Intel 11th Gen CPUs, so the particular one will likely be the one that ships with your pick of Tiger Lake SKU. The Xe MAX card is useful for particular niche cases, such as encoding videos with good power efficiency, but because it's no more powerful than the top-range built-in Tiger Lake iGPU, there would be little point in putting it in most laptops.