The Framework Laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: The Framework Laptop

#291

Post by JoshTriplett » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #71

sho_hn wrote: post #60

I don't see any information on the licensing of the adapter card / inter-module interfaces. Can others build a Framework laptop without approval? Can others build cards without approval? Will it be a platform? Tell me how this isn't a Nespresso machine for silicon pods. :-) Edit: To be clear, even a "we have a generic base laptop and you can pick your I/O" concept is potentially a nice value prop, but it'd be good if…

They're just USB-C dongles that snap into the chassis.. You can see better shots here: https://frame.work This is an unpopular opinion, but I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery. USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. (the Nespresso analogy is ridiculous, a la…

> This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery.

I wondered about that as well. Looking at the picture at the top of the main page, I see one small battery, and electronics that take up 2-3x the size of normal laptop electronics. Most current laptops have 60-80% of their chassis space occupied by batteries.

However, the description mentions a 55Wh battery, which is quite reasonable for a thin-and-light laptop. It says 1.3kg, which is a little heavier than desirable for the form factor (1-1.2kg), but not by much. On balance, this looks like a much more reasonable set of tradeoffs than past "repairable laptop" efforts I've seen; Framework is putting serious hardware engineering effort into this.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#292

Post by tomtheelder » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

nrp wrote: post #171

jblow wrote: post #153

Hi, When I saw this announcement I was hoping that I could finally buy a laptop with a good trackpad, with buttons, and a good keyboard again. But looking at the announcement, it seems like trackpad and keyboard quality are far from anyone's mind, and it just looks like the laptop is copying Apple stylistically like everyone else, which means it is going to be kind-of unusable and I won't want to use it. (Especially…

Keyboard and touchpad quality were high priorities for us. We built in 1.5mm key travel, which is unusually high for a <16mm thick laptop. The touchpad surface feels great and performs well. I hear you on the touchpad buttons though. That is something we've done a little exploration on. The touchpad is an end-user replaceable module, but we can't commit to a three button version materializing just yet.

No buttons is clearly the logical choice. I can't imagine it would be worth building a three button version to satisfy that miniscule niche.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#293

Post by wgjordan » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

"designed to last" sounds great, but it can also be an empty promise without any contractual guarantees. What's the warranty going to be on this product?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#294

Post by eeZah7Ux » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

marcodiego wrote: post #82

What is really needed is a common chassis. A common carcass that allows me the put whatever I want inside it. If I want a pinebook[1], I want to be able to put pinebook guts inside it, if I want a mnt reform[2], I want to be able to put mnt reform guts inside it. Too bad eoma68[3] is still sci-fi. [1] https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ [2] https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-more-p... [3] https://…

The form factor of EOMA is simply unsuitable. Compared to any laptop motherboard or SBC, the volume available in the slot is tiny.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#295

Post by VlijmenFileer » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

Another laptop with arrow keys so small they're unusable. No usable arrow keys means useless computer. What is wrong with laptop manufacturers making these broken keys standard? There's hardly any laptop left I could buy. A bit longer and I will have to drag an external keyboard everywhere just to use my laptop. Or just forgo laptop at all and start carrying some miny PC. It's insanity.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#296

Post by 2020aj » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

ploxiln wrote: post #237

I don't see any mention of the firmware and drivers efforts for this. Firmware and drivers always end up more difficult to deal with than expected. The Fairphone company was surprised by difficulties upgrading and patching android without support from their BSP vendor, causing many months delays of updates _and_ years shorter support life than they were planning for their earlier models. I purchased the Purism Librem…

Librem was geared towards openness/security, this just has a focus on repairability. Can Framework not just use off the shelf parts that already have the proper firmware/drivers available for windows/linux and then encounter none of the same issues? Or is the issue the interfaces b/w the modules and mainboard?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#297

Post by ben_ » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

nrp wrote: post #209

foobarian wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPIO cards on a modern laptop? Sign me up!!!

Yes! Actually, one of the first cards we built internally is a little Arduino-compatible one with a SAMD21 microcontroller and an external-facing 0.1" pin header for GPIO.

I love it!

Re: The Framework Laptop

#298

Post by CivBase » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

uluyol wrote: post #245

CivBase wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We managed to get standards like that on desktops though. What's specifically different about modern laptops?

Size, heat, weight, and noise are more challenging for laptop design than desktops. Desktops tend to have things spread out much more and you just don't care about some of these issues.

Size and weight would definitely need to be consider by component manufacturers, but it doesn't seem like that big of a problem when it comes to standardizing a laptop chassis.

Heat and noise are definitely bigger concerns since a compact laptop cannot rely on large radiators, fans, and liquid cooling loops for cooling. But if you standardize the screw holes and socket positions on motherboards and graphics cards, I see no reason why a chassis couldn't ship with their own case-specific cooling solutions which leverage heat pipes and low-profile fans to provide cooling. Processor locations are already pretty consistent on desktop motherboards and graphics cards, so this wouldn't be something particularly new.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#299

Post by nrp » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

ploxiln wrote: post #237

I don't see any mention of the firmware and drivers efforts for this. Firmware and drivers always end up more difficult to deal with than expected. The Fairphone company was surprised by difficulties upgrading and patching android without support from their BSP vendor, causing many months delays of updates _and_ years shorter support life than they were planning for their earlier models. I purchased the Purism Librem…

Our Embedded Controller firmware is based on chromium ec, and we're using a mature off the shelf BIOS solution shipping in other notebooks today. We chose our key components with driver stability across both Windows and Linux in mind. We know this is something we have to get right to deliver a credible competitor to all the great notebooks already in the market, so it is something we focused on from the start.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#300

Post by ConfusedDog » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

Looks very interesting. Hopefully the pricing isn't ridiculous, and come with empty SSD/RAM so users don't waste money on a basic build. I have concerns about the port modules, as they are "mechanical moving parts" that I don't have good experience with, but definitely a better alternative than dongles in a lot of use cases. Signed up subscribed. Looking forward to see it in action.