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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#491

Post by ianai »

gumby wrote: post #440
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the books are also well-meaning busybodies. Worse: The books that most resonate with you may well be the ones you need to ignore. Take strict vs permissive parenting, for example. Say you're by nature a more permissive parenting. The books that say you should be permissive will resonate more with you than the books that say that you should be strict. But it's the ones that say to be strict that you need to hear,…

Funny you should say that, I just read a comment on HN claiming the opposite. Let me search for it and then edit this comment with the link...

That’s the thing about the internet. If you posit P to be true then a vehement Not P believer will attack your comment with “fire and fury” and any form of attack that could work but still be false. And some of the times they’re correct of course and Not P is indeed true While P is not.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#492

Post by leipert »

gamblor956 wrote: post #487
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.) This article calls it an ‘extreme’ practice. Sleep training appears to be standard for all the parents I know, in the U.S. and otherwise. I think it's more likely that the author of the article has extreme views on parenting that they're tying to impose on others.

Not necessarily standard in Germany. Some literature explicitly calls it out as cruel, parenting books coming from the US recommend it

Mileage varies, know of one couple who did sleep training and had success with it.

Other couples shared a bed with their kid until it was about two and when they moved to a different apartment they took the opportunity to explain: hey you have your own room now.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#493

Post by gumby »

ianai wrote: post #491
gumby wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you should say that, I just read a comment on HN claiming the opposite. Let me search for it and then edit this comment with the link...

That’s the thing about the internet. If you posit P to be true then a vehement Not P believer will attack your comment with “fire and fury” and any form of attack that could work but still be false. And some of the times they’re correct of course and Not P is indeed true While P is not.

We’re all complicated humans.

What’s amazing about the child rearing is that each of us has such a small n. Yet we (me included) think we know the secrets.

When my kid has a kid I hope I will be smart enough to keep my trap shut until asked.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#494

Post by mojolozzo »

leokennis wrote: post #423
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

To me, it’s very simple: I work and my wife works. After some maternity/paternity leave, we both need to get to work again to earn money to provide our kids with food, shelter, a future etc. To be able to work, we need to sleep. For us to sleep, our kids and the baby needs to sleep. So we put the baby in his own room on day three. Always had him sleep in his bed in his room. Didn’t let him sleep anywhere else (or whe…

I also see an alternative in 2021, even with both parents working. Just as a baby might be trained to sleep through the night, an adult can be trained to not sleep in one big chunk of 6-8 hours, but sleep in several chunks of a few hours. A little nap here and there, and some getting used to using your brain (=working) when tired is a viable alternative for me at least. While sleep is very important for ones health, having a child got me to realize that I can function with less sleep as well. This would be more in the spirit of „parents adapt to their new life as a young family“ in contrast to „the baby adapts to the parents pre-family lifestyle“. I am ready to sacrifice sleep for going out and working late, and so am I to comfort a crying brand-new descendant of mine. (Maybe I‘ll change my mind once the second baby is here ;) )

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#495

Post by Viliam1234 »

leokennis wrote: post #423
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

To me, it’s very simple: I work and my wife works. After some maternity/paternity leave, we both need to get to work again to earn money to provide our kids with food, shelter, a future etc. To be able to work, we need to sleep. For us to sleep, our kids and the baby needs to sleep. So we put the baby in his own room on day three. Always had him sleep in his bed in his room. Didn’t let him sleep anywhere else (or whe…

It is sad if in 2021 a wife (or a husband) cannot take even a year or half-year break from the career.

(To avoid possible confusion, I am shaming the society, not you.)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#496

Post by whatever1 »

The thing that I don’t get from the Western culture is what is the point of parenting? Both parents work and they immediately unload their baby to a day care. I was shocked to learn that 9 month babies are sent to day-cares.

Is paying the bills for a human you barely see called parenting?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#497

Post by zekrioca »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #377
zekrioca wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person probably shared private parenting habits and received such criticism..

Of course I shared private parenting habits - parents often discuss various approaches to problems or daily life. I didn't share without being prompted, though. I keep most private things to myself in person. If sleeping came up and I mentioned co-sleeping, people were often critical. They think it's bad for the kid, dangerous, unnecessary, what have you. I don't mind the criticism; I think it's helpful to know how p…

Yes, I’m not in any way judging or criticizing your decision to share your parenting habits, specially after being prompted. What I dislike sometimes is others trying to control at all times how parents should grow a kid. This will ultimately be passed over to kids, which may then propagate this behavior. Life, I guess.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#498

Post by sangnoir »

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

> For us, ‘extreme’ was the sleep deprivation we experienced with baby number one as we tried every ‘no cry’ method in the book.

I was more generous in how I interpreted the article: the need for sleep-training is a consequence of the child having a whole different room to themselves. Parents in other cultures who share the room (or the bed) do not get the same level of extreme sleep deprivation and, as a consequence, will not need to sleep-train.

To me, the article is not questioning how good the parenting in the west is - it's contrasting it with parenting elsewhere (and tracing the roots of the parenting practices)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#499

Post by Dirlewanger »

osterreich0000 wrote: post #114
meowster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if salaries were more competitive because there were less workers? If the cultural norm was to only have one parent work, then it seems like the supply of workers essentially doubles* if both parents work, leading to less competitive wages. *not exactly, but essentially. Yes, not everyone is married etc.

This is what's known as the "lump of labour" fallacy - the idea that there's a fixed amount of work that needs to be done, therefore opening the job market to more workers necessarily lowers wages due to "increased supply". The reality is that increasing the supply of workers doesn't necessarily mean increased competition for jobs. More people available to work means that more can be produced across the board; each a…

>The pie can be grown at the same time that it's sliced more ways.

Except the exact opposite has happened.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#500

Post by [deleted] »

mordechai9000 wrote: post #458
a2tech wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much believe SIDS is a real thing. I also think that many cases of SIDS are babies being smothered by soft cloth that bunches up and constricts their breathing and by accidentally smothered by their parents while they're deeply asleep. When kids are small I think co-sleeping is a great thing (where you have a small basinet or something similar next to your bed where you can reach out and touch your baby but th…

I knew someone - a co-workers sibling - who lost a baby that got stuck between couch cushions while sleeping. And they told everyone it was SIDS. I don't know if the cause of death was actually recorded as SIDS, though.

[deleted]
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