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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#111

Post by PebblesRox »

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

I agree and I really dislike the undercurrent of fear that's present in a lot of parenting advice. The message (implicitly or explicitly) tends to be "do it this way or you'll damage your kids." But the truth is we're never going to be perfect parents, we have no guarantees over how our kids turn out, and there are a wide range of approaches that will lead to good outcomes.

I like to do research to discover options I might not have come up with on my own, but I always try to pay attention to those subtle messages of fear so they don't influence my decisions too much.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#112

Post by newsbinator »

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

> It seems to me people who are loved and cared for as children are raised and generally become well-adjusted and happy individuals.

Is there evidence that people who are tolerated and fed/clothed but not super-loved or super cared-for as children have worse outcomes as adults (adjusting for socio-economic class)?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#113

Post by Cthulhu_ »

meowster wrote: post #82
alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

> Most all of them just seem apathetic.

Which seems the other side of helicopter parenting; kids don't get much of a say in deciding what they fill their free time with, so they don't develop an opinion in things like that.

Plus (and I'm going to sound old here, give me my cane so I can shake it), there's a lot more casual entertainment lying around the house nowadays to fill the voids in people's time. "doing nothing" is not much of a thing anymore, because people will casually browse their phone or turn on the TV or something. (I'm guilty of that as well).

In the previous generation, there would be a TV but not everything on there would catch the interest of everyone.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#114

Post by osterreich0000 »

meowster wrote: post #91
jokethrowaway wrote: post #42

I wonder how much is caused by having both parents working. Kids were raised differently 50-70 years ago when one salary was enough for a family.

I wonder if salaries were more competitive because there were less workers? If the cultural norm was to only have one parent work, then it seems like the supply of workers essentially doubles* if both parents work, leading to less competitive wages. *not exactly, but essentially. Yes, not everyone is married etc.

This is what's known as the "lump of labour" fallacy - the idea that there's a fixed amount of work that needs to be done, therefore opening the job market to more workers necessarily lowers wages due to "increased supply".

The reality is that increasing the supply of workers doesn't necessarily mean increased competition for jobs. More people available to work means that more can be produced across the board; each additional worker can create opportunities for further additional workers. The pie can be grown at the same time that it's sliced more ways.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#115

Post by dragonwriter »

satokema_work wrote: post #50
TomK32 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't have children if you think any violence against children is acceptable.

At some point, you are going to have to use some sort of force to confine or constrain to prevent the child from engaging in unwanted behavior. No matter what flowery language or loopy logic you use to avoid the subject, you are applying force. Is it better to have well-thought out uses of force instead of just hitting the kid when they make you angry? Of course. But don't pretend that living in the world requires no…

> At some point, you are going to have to use some sort of force to confine or constrain to prevent the child from engaging in unwanted behavior.

Physically confining or constraining is not the same thing as using deliberate infliction of pain as a punishment.

> No matter what flowery language or loopy logic you use to avoid the subject, you are applying force.

Force is not the issue.

> But don't pretend that living in the world requires no discipline at all.

Discipline is a third distinct (but overlapping) category from physical constraint and pain-as-punishment.

Confusing the three different issues is not helpful.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#116

Post by tryonenow »

jbob2000 wrote: post #79
kkwteh wrote: post #47

From the perspective of the Lindy principle it is weird. I have an eighteen-month old child and have been reading a lot about child rearing since my wife got pregnant. It’s taboo to say this, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I suspect that a lack of adult attention in the first three years of life is a principal factor in the rising autism rates we’re seeing in modern economies. This would explain why autism…

Checkout this article, "Childhood autism spikes in geek heartlands": https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20589-childhood-autis... There's a correlation between parents who are both "systemizers" and their child having autism. I've also heard the theory that Austism is basically what we've been genetically selecting for over the last 100 years or so - the world wants brainless consumers - what is better than someon…

>the world wants brainless consumers - what is better than someone with sensory disorders, who can be primed to get up and buy with a simple prick?

That's a pretty broad and inaccurate generalization of autism spectrum disorders. If anything I think people on the spectrum are far less likely to be convinced to buy products through advertisement. Autism is a sort of innate stubbornness.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#117

Post by agent008t »

threatofrain wrote: post #98
meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

I don’t know what it means for kids to be free nowadays. Free to visit a friend’s home seems like the only thing, because everything else is a home that’s an anonymous unit or a commercial establishment that’s gated by money. It’s not like you’re releasing your child to be raised by the experiences of the village. With that in mind, many parents are probably struggling to not have their kids consumed by the web durin…

Skateboarding? Climbing trees? Taking apart a toy? Messing around with a computer and a programming language? Inventing a game?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#118

Post by standardUser »

alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

"So many kids in my area have their days booked solid"

Sounds like a wealthy thing, not a Western thing.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#119

Post by osterreich0000 »

statstutor wrote: post #25
alex_anglin wrote: post #8

Another great example of Betteridge's law.

Nothing culturally Western will ever be considered weird by people in the West, by definition.

Unless you're a psychologist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology#WEIRD_bias

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#120

Post by PebblesRox »

nomdep wrote: post #34
itsmemattchung wrote: post #17

Definitely something that my wife and I struggle with. She's Vietnamese British, I'm Vietnamese American ; both of us current living in the U.S. Despite what our training classes recommend, we're co-sleeping with our 17 month year old daughter and it feels more intuitive.

So - if you don't mind the question, sorry for asking if you do - how/when you have sex?

Secondary sleep space for the baby (we had a crib mattress on the floor in the living room for naps anyway) or secondary sex space for the parents. A futon in another room does double-duty when the kid is old enough to nap there safely.

Middle-of-the-afternoon is a good time. Older kids can be occupied with Legos while the baby naps and the parents sneak off.

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