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Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

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Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#151

Post by dragonwriter »

Anthony-G wrote: post #148
teh_klev wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the context needs to be expanded some more: In exploring the emo-cognitive performance of White neurosis we draw from the interdisciplinary approach to critical Whiteness studies. For example theologian, Thandeka (1999) argues that Whites have cultivated a deep shame about anything racial because since birth they have been reared to claim they do not see race when in fact they do. Acknowledging this, Thandeka…

Upvoted for providing actual context but the quoted text reads like academic obscurantism to me. I may not be the target audience for such papers but phrases like “own resonant feelings” are meaningless. I took the time to look up what “emo-cognitive” is supposed to mean but all I found was papers similar to Beyond the Face of Race: Emo-Cognitive Explorations of White Neurosis and Racial Cray-Cray by the same author.…

> I took the time to look up what “emo-cognitive” is supposed to mean

“emo-cognitive” is a rather obvious term for things that exist across both emotional and cognitive categories, that the two domains are viewed as cross-linked but that cross-domain terminology is unsettled seems clear (searching for “emo-cognitive” returns links like [0].)

[0] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=A+taxonomy+of+emotion+a...

> I also had to look up “white neurosis” to find out what it’s supposed to be

The subject paper is largely about what that (in the sense it's title is concerned with) is; why would you “look it up” rather than reading the paper itself?

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#152

Post by Anthony-G »

guidovranken wrote: post #86
insickness wrote: post #38

From the third slide: > To be less white is to: > > - be less oppressive > - be less arrogant > - be less certain > - be less defensive > - be less ignorant > - be more humble > - listen > - believe > - break with apathy > - break with white solidarity Basically associating everything negative with being white. If this is not racism, I don't know what is.

Woke culture is an abhorrent movement that combines the coercive dynamics of Marxism with the racism of national socialism. It's not about removing racism, it's about consolidating power by forcing everyone into compliance. Actual racial segregation is already happening in the US because of it and worse things are bound to happen. Everyone will be worse off if this is given free reign.

What are the commonalties that link this sort of neo-racism with Marxism? I’m somewhat familiar with Marx (mostly second-hand) but most of his writing seemed to focus on analysis of economics, historical forces and people’s relationship with the means of production.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#153

Post by karaterobot »

philistine wrote: post #3

The quote in the title of the article is really an inappropriate way to try to describe inclusiveness. It’s not about being less, it’s about including others more.

I think your point with this comment was that inclusiveness is not about eliminating some groups, but about accepting more groups, with the overriding principle of tolerance and respect for differences. This is the definition of inclusiveness I was taught, more or less.

If I'm right about that, I think most people are misreading your comment somehow. If I'm wrong about that, I'm the one misreading it!

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#154

Post by omginternets »

Anthony-G wrote: post #149
omginternets wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The training claims to be created by Dr. Robin DiAngelo (author of books such as White Fragility). Dr. DiAngelo has a statement on her website claiming that she had nothing to do with this content and it was created without her consent Typical moat-and-bailey argumentation from the woke. These people are just dripping with bad faith, as if this Coca Cola presentation isn't in ideological lock-step with DiAngelo. The…

For what it’s worth, that’s not an example of the motte-and-bailey fallacy. It’s a simple denial and does sound plausible – though I agree that the sentiments expressed by both DiAngelo and the training seem similar.

I see what you mean, but I do think it's a case of motte-and-bailey. The flow is generally as follows:

1. Make statement X that implies action Y should be taken.

2. Someone takes action Y, citing X.

3. Deny that your usage of X implies Y.

And this is extremely typical of woke rhetoric. In the present case, it's summarized by "Coca Cola didn't have my permission to use my ideas", with the implication that the idea was somehow used incorrectly.

Perhaps there's a better term, but it resembles motte-and-bailey to the extent that it involves playing on ambiguity to retreat to a more defensible position.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#155

Post by tolbish »

inglor_cz wrote: post #99
tolbish wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why HN only focuses on the financial part. There are several complex ways in which racial injustice works. Nigerian Americans will still get racially profiled at the store and have a harder time with the police.

I cannot vouch for that either way. My experience from Europe is that A LOT depends on your clothing and general demeanor. An Indian dressed a in silk three piece suit and a Philippe Patek watch on his wrist will be treated with obsequious deference by the store personnel. A Roma guy dressed as stereotypical Roma will be suspected and followed. Their skin colors are identical. At the end of the day, money talks.

The US has a very different relationship with race than your country.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#156

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mc32 wrote: post #51
chewmieser wrote: post #46

This is from LinkedIn's learning portal, which is used by numerous companies (like Coca-Cola). The training claims to be created by Dr. Robin DiAngelo (author of books such as White Fragility). Dr. DiAngelo has a statement on her website claiming that she had nothing to do with this content and it was created without her consent: Dr. DiAngelo was not the creator or facilitator of the LinkedIn Learning course “Confron…

Part of the problem here is this kind of training has become “an industry”. There is a positive feedback loop and people want to cache in. To make more money you create demand. How do you create demand? You make it obligatory training. This one is about devaluing a culture for political reasons. But there are other topics like coöperation, teamwork, time management, etc. occasionally there are good insights. Mostly i…

And how do you make it obligatory training? By (perhaps implicitly) threatening a company that a howling mob will destroy their image if they don't show that they're fully committed to the position that the training is supposed to achieve. And how do you show that you're fully committed? By having the training.

And what does the training teach you to do? To confront racism wherever you see it. Thus the training recruits you to become part of the howling mob to threaten the next business with.

It's so perfect that I can't tell if that's just an accidental side effect of following an ideology, or if it's a deliberate mafia-style shakedown with the added genius of a positive feedback loop that amplifies the threat as time goes on.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#157

Post by malandrew »

mc32 wrote: post #51
chewmieser wrote: post #46

This is from LinkedIn's learning portal, which is used by numerous companies (like Coca-Cola). The training claims to be created by Dr. Robin DiAngelo (author of books such as White Fragility). Dr. DiAngelo has a statement on her website claiming that she had nothing to do with this content and it was created without her consent: Dr. DiAngelo was not the creator or facilitator of the LinkedIn Learning course “Confron…

Part of the problem here is this kind of training has become “an industry”. There is a positive feedback loop and people want to cache in. To make more money you create demand. How do you create demand? You make it obligatory training. This one is about devaluing a culture for political reasons. But there are other topics like coöperation, teamwork, time management, etc. occasionally there are good insights. Mostly i…

It’s a full on Diversity and inclusion industrial complex at this point and exemplary of the Shirky principle (they are preserving the problem to which they are the solution), which is why the goals of such people are never put in specific and measurable terms. This allows the goal posts to be continually moved no matter how much progress is made since these people want to keep the firehouse of corporate money flowing.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#158

Post by Shorel »

sokoloff wrote: post #16
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't try to justify racism. The slides literally told employees to "be less white".

If that instruction was contextually intended to support non-white employees who felt like they had to "play white" in order to succeed, I think the advice is generally good ("be yourself"). If that was contextually directed primarily towards white employees, it's offensive and inherently racist. I didn't (and now can't) see the context, but context matters. "White before black" is offensive/racist in many contexts,…

Context is for kings.

Captain Lorca taught me that.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#159

Post by Nacdor »

seneca wrote: post #114
Nacdor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're changing the subject. This topic is about personality traits, not medical conditions. This statement is still true: "There's literally no context where attributing qualities to people based on their skin color is OK." You wanted to be pedantic, so you ignored the context in which that statement was made. If you hadn't ignored the context, you would've known the statement was about personality traits and not me…

The person I am replying to used the phrase "literally no context" and you're saying I am ignoring the context in order to make an argument. My entire point is that the OP is throwing away context, and in so doing falsifying their own argument. The lack of context is the whole point of contention. You're attributing to me the very thing I'm disagreeing with.

Once again, you are ignoring the context in which the statement was made and then using that to change the subject and justify your pedantry.

The statement was obviously about personality traits, that much was clear based on the context in which the statement was made (this HN thread). You are now ignoring the context in which the statement was made and instead focusing on the use of the word 'context' within the statement itself. To make it easier for you to understand, here is what was implied by the statement given the context in which it was made "There's literally no context where attributing PERSONALITY qualities to people based on their skin color is OK."

Your argument about medical conditions is not only wrong (as pointed out by another commenter), it's completely irrelevant and off-topic. The discussion was only about personality traits until you tried to derail it.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#160

Post by Solar19 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #136
kardianos wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is she disagreeing with this?

> So is she disagreeing with this? They (it's not a sole-author paper) are very clearly not endorsing it as a literal description , while also quite explicitly endorsing the detailed and nuanced description of the effects of inculcating White identity which Thandeka uses to explain that rather inflammatory summary description, and also, implicitly through scare-quoted back-reference, adopting the summary as a metapho…

I don't see much nuance or texture there. I think this work is a scratch, has no epistemic standing, meaning, or utility. Modern academic methods are incredibly sloppy and non-rigorous, where they just make all these assertions and synthesize a bunch of bizarre abstractions and purport to describe reality. That's not how humans or any other sentients actually discover reality.
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