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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#401

Post by lotsofpulp »

neolog wrote: post #388
lotsofpulp wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, a doctor/lawyer dual income couple should be earning at least $300k, if not $500k+ per year. Source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... Even with $600k to $800k ($4k to $6k per month loan payments) of student loans, they should be able to pull off a decent lifestyle and be positive net worth by their mid 40s.

That link needs an account. Maybe a screenshot or something

Weird, I just searched medscape 2020 doctor pay in duckduckgo and it works for me.

Here’s an alternate search result with similar findings:

https://c8y.doxcdn.com/image/upload/Press%20Blog/Research%20...

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#402

Post by NovaJehovah »

bihla wrote: post #371
NovaJehovah wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to say there's one right way to do things. But there are a lot of plainly wrong ways. If your parenting philosophy is not based on any research or learning about what's best for your child, but instead on what's easiest and most convenient for you , then you're probably doing it wrong. That doesn't mean you can't set boundaries for kids who are old enough to understand them. I think the way we discard…

So much of the "research" is not research at all. It's no surprise to see anti-vaccine sentiment run strong among Grace Manning-Devlin types.

It's true. Yet another hard thing about being a parent is that there is a lot of crappy "research" and advice to wade through (including most of the research claiming to support your view, btw). But there's some solid stuff out there too--pretending there isn't because you might reach conclusions that conflict with a self-serving parenting philosophy is just another excuse.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#403

Post by gumby »

As a parent myself I have only one piece of child rearing advice.

First: Read a bunch of books (which will contradict each other)

Then: a) do what you think is right and b) when someone tells you to do X (especially, but not only your mother or mother in law), if you disagree just say "Funny you should say that because I just read the exact opposite" and hand them a random baby rearing book.

This sounds like a joke but the biggest problem in child rearing is well meaning busybodies and we figured out this effective way to shut it down. (Busybodies who were strangers we just smiled at and ignored).

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#404

Post by u678u »

NovaJehovah wrote: post #309
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

> Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're prioritizing your own convenience or ego or career over the wellbeing of your child, then you're a bad parent.

Sounds like you have no clue. Try looking after 3 babies then come back an talk to us.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#405

Post by bihla »

NovaJehovah wrote: post #389
bihla wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible you're coming from a very different background than me... I can understand your point of view if your context is being raised under real impoverished conditions; I agree a parent should do anything they can to meet a necessary level of stability for the child. But this comment makes me think of what is more likely familiar to members of this forum, where parents use their children to serve their own ego…

> the "wellbeing of your child" is not really a question Mental health, substance abuse, and suicide statistics, including among the middle and upper classes, would seem to strongly indicate otherwise. > It's possible you meant to make a more sympathetic point, but my first impression is that the comment espouses an actively harmful idea about the relation between parent and a child. So "try hard, make sacrifices, an…

Children are not clay to be molded, and they are not computer systems to be planned and carried out. They are individuals. And there are no clear solutions to mental health, substance abuse, or suicide--but there are clear non-solutions like helicopter parenting.

EDIT: And best-efforts at laying out everything for your kid are more than potentially-wasted energy. It's smothering, controlling behavior of someone who should have the right to live and make their own choices and mistakes.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#406

Post by ink_13 »

astura wrote: post #393
bhandziuk wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife and I went to pre-baby classes they'd often use the phrase "Fed is best" and I thought it was strange because it sounded like something that could have rhymed and was a missed opportunity. Then I was informed that the phrase used to be "Breast is best" but, like you're saying, women who could not breast feed for whatever reason were subjected to this level of guilt and ridicule so much so that now they'v…

Skin-to-skin is totally BS nonsense. It was found to be beneficial for premature infants who need help regulating body temperature in low resource settings (where incubators are not available). So naturally, people started recommending it for term infants who don't need help regulating body temperature and it's risks completely ignored! https://www.skepticalob.com/2019/04/fisher-price-rock-n-play... https://www.skept…

Skin-to-skin is also for pair bonding. To toss it out as just for body temperature is too hasty.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#407

Post by [deleted] »

decafninja wrote: post #376
phabora wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the case where I live in the small non-American West. We’ve all seen the American TV show/films where some Mega Loser has failed to move out the year they become eighteen and graduated the year they become twenty-two. Maybe it comes off as a trope for non-Americans.

In America, if you don't move out ASAP, you are considered a failure, a loser, a (wo)man-child, etc. In other countries (or even cultural enclaves in the US), it's considered perfectly normal and acceptable. You'll see highly paid professionals like medical doctors, hedge fund managers or SWEs making huge salaries living with their parents.

[deleted]

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#408

Post by bhandziuk »

astura wrote: post #393
bhandziuk wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife and I went to pre-baby classes they'd often use the phrase "Fed is best" and I thought it was strange because it sounded like something that could have rhymed and was a missed opportunity. Then I was informed that the phrase used to be "Breast is best" but, like you're saying, women who could not breast feed for whatever reason were subjected to this level of guilt and ridicule so much so that now they'v…

Skin-to-skin is totally BS nonsense. It was found to be beneficial for premature infants who need help regulating body temperature in low resource settings (where incubators are not available). So naturally, people started recommending it for term infants who don't need help regulating body temperature and it's risks completely ignored! https://www.skepticalob.com/2019/04/fisher-price-rock-n-play... https://www.skept…

> BS nonsense

This sounds like the conclusion of someone who does not have kids. You're going to wear a shirt all the time? What does this even mean to avoid skin to skin contact?

It looks like your links are talking about the first few hours or days while still in the hospital. I'm talking about skin to skin over the next many months.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#409

Post by jl6 »

eurusdac wrote: post #214
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I agree, my advice to any new parent would be to listen carefully to advice about how not to drown your child while bathing them, and how to make sure they're not suffocated by their bedding. Both real issues where some simple practices avoid the small risk of an absolutely catastrophic outcome. Then take all other advice with a pinch of salt. Just follow your best instincts and do what seems right. Your child will b…

Generally agree, except I’m not sure there is a bright line between the obviously-worthwhile precautions you mention and the paranoid overprecautions that might themselves carry harm.

Seatbelts... yes. Choking first aid... yes.

Healthy eating, talking to them frequently... probably?

Lots of sunlight and fresh air... maybe?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#410

Post by NovaJehovah »

bihla wrote: post #405
NovaJehovah wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "wellbeing of your child" is not really a question Mental health, substance abuse, and suicide statistics, including among the middle and upper classes, would seem to strongly indicate otherwise. > It's possible you meant to make a more sympathetic point, but my first impression is that the comment espouses an actively harmful idea about the relation between parent and a child. So "try hard, make sacrifices, an…

Children are not clay to be molded, and they are not computer systems to be planned and carried out. They are individuals. And there are no clear solutions to mental health, substance abuse, or suicide--but there are clear non-solutions like helicopter parenting. EDIT: And best-efforts at laying out everything for your kid are more than potentially-wasted energy. It's smothering, controlling behavior of someone who s…

"Helicopter parenting" and "smothering" are not the only alternatives to self-serving, self-absorbed neglect.

Throwing your hands up because something is hard and there are no obvious answers is not a recipe for doing a good job at... anything.

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