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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#201

Post by pineaux »

aswegs8 wrote: post #143
dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

Can't agree more. BBC just tends to play the "self-critical Western" role a bit too much.

You sound very red-pilled

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#202

Post by polishdude20 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #177
lqet wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. Relax. I occasionally ate fast food when I was 4, and I was definitely aware of the existence of McDonalds. I never had a weight problem in my life, and today I eat fast food maybe once every 3 months or so.

I accept I may be over-reacting a little, but in that particular case occasionally means a weekly happy meal. The kid in question is already yelling "Happy Meal day" on Friday.

I feel like in some way, it's actually better to let your child hang out with this kid in order for them to learn how not to do things. your child may learn to dislike that other child for one reason or another and they'll associate that need for McDonald's with the negative qualities of that kid.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#203

Post by aiilns »

ragnese wrote: post #151
dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

I'm in the U.S. I personally know a non-trivial number of women who have gone through absolutely intense (real, diagnosed) anxiety and depression because of having to feed formula to their child instead of breast milk. If you ever get to peek into these "mommy groups" on social media or in person, you can see how much shaming goes on in there. And the breast milk one is one of the biggest issues people get shamed for…

Well good advice in general, even though the way you phrase your comment makes it look like you think breast feeding is no better than the formulas.

I am a medical student and we have been told at uni from professors (paediatricians) that breast feeding _is_ better than formulas I think with regards to asthma or some other allergic stuff. There are reasons that mothers should not or cannot breastfeed and it's not the end of the world, but in general I believe they should.

And really the weight of proof rests on the baby formulas to prove that they're OK. Even common sense suggests breast feeding is better, it's been the way people have been growing up for millenia all around the world.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#204

Post by Thiez »

screye wrote: post #92
diegocg wrote: post #24

>A 2016 review that looked at research on children sharing not just a room but a bed with one or more of their parents found a high prevalence in many Asian countries: Let me guess: there is a high correlation between sharing your room and poverty levels?

I don't understand needing a room for yourself before puberty strikes. Even then, sharing the room with a same-gender sibling doesn't sound too bad. It's funny because these same people go to college and share their dorm room for the 1st 2 years of university, when someone needs the most amount of privacy. > correlation between sharing your room and poverty levels In India, unless you are super rich, having a room to…

Genuine question: the bedroom is traditionally (where I come from, Western Europe) also a common place for couples to have sex. In addition, many people presumably would prefer not to walk in on their parents, or have sex in front of their children. So how does this work in cultures where it's common for children not to have their own rooms until puberty starts (so 10 to 13 years?)? Do people get more adventurous about when and where they do it, or is there less of a taboo on getting it on in front of the kids, or, since you mention India, are those delicious spices used to mask the taste of the sleeping pills everybody is feeding their children?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#205

Post by gugagore »

rayiner wrote: post #182
silicon2401 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health,…

Americans aren't fat because of Starbucks and McDonalds. Those things are just food. Americans are fat because they eat too many calories and don't get enough exercise: https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat... At age 2-3, my parents fed me traditional Bangladeshi meals of chicken or beef curry stewed in heavy amounts of canola oil. My 2 year old, meanwhile, lives on McDonald's chicken nuggets.…

Where did the food that your parents gave you come from?

There is no simple reason for WHY people in the US overeat and underexercise. But one facet involves the disruption of rituals and tradition around food. It's still progress by some means that a mother doesn't need to spend as many hours preparing meals for a household, and can instead e.g. work. But I believe we should generally dial back a bit how convenient and neutral it has become to eat. We're quite disconnected from our food.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#206

Post by [deleted] »

alistairSH wrote: post #179
Clewza313 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, if the children in question are under 12 and going to any of those places unsupervised, they're likely to get the police and/or CPS called on them.

Sadly true. And part of the problem. There's now an expectation (at least in upper middle class areas) that kids be in formal, supervised activities 24/7. I still remember growing up, playing around the neighborhood, and a parent would call out the front door "Danny, dinner time!" and all the kids would scatter to get home for dinner. #getoffmylawn #wheresmycane

[deleted]

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#207

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

ragnese wrote: post #151
dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

I'm in the U.S. I personally know a non-trivial number of women who have gone through absolutely intense (real, diagnosed) anxiety and depression because of having to feed formula to their child instead of breast milk. If you ever get to peek into these "mommy groups" on social media or in person, you can see how much shaming goes on in there. And the breast milk one is one of the biggest issues people get shamed for…

> If you are not a scientist who has actually conducted one of these studies; if you are not intimately familiar with the methodologies and the math techniques used in the analysis; if you've only ever read the headline and maybe an abstract of a study- then please don't give advice to anyone on the topic. Please don't spread "information" that X is better than Y.

I'd say this advice doesn't really go far enough. I'm not a scientist but I have read a number of these studies and the biggest takeaway is that in many cases effect sizes are really low and it's hard to say whether these effects are real or the result of some hidden uncontrolled variable. This applies, at a minimum, to breastfeeding v. formula, and also to alcohol consumption during pregnancy. Back to sleep has real and significant effects. Screen time's harm is severely overhyped given the quality of the evidence we have available, but too much sugar is definitely bad for you.

My advice to new parents is basically that in most cases we don't have good evidence for one thing being much better than another. As far as food, baby should have formula or breast milk, but which one doesn't matter all that much. As far as sleeping, the sleep area should be firm and free of blankets, but as far as I'm concerned the evidence about where baby should sleep is minimal. I'm not aware of any strong evidence that sleep training has an effect other than teaching the baby to sleep.

One other commonality I see in a lot of this stuff is there is zero consideration for the costs that the various treatments impose on parents, and particularly on the mother. If breastfeeding gives junior a 0.5% increase in IQ, is that worth a year of suffering and untold hours spent feeding? That's a value judgment, for sure, but it seems to be left out of the equation entirely when people are giving advice to mothers.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#208

Post by polishdude20 »

sdevonoes wrote: post #121
alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

Best decision my parents made for me when I was kid: no extra activities after school, no summer camps, no music lessons, etc, no soccer teams, etc. I did have "unofficial summer camps", I did play some music instruments (without teachers), I did play a lot of soccer (without teams, just in the street)... I (and the kids in my neighbourhood) did all of these without adults.

Yeah me too! I had the occasional swimming lesson once per week or something but other than that, if the weather was good, you'd find me and all the neighborhood kids running around playing tag or riding our bikes everywhere. I grew up at a co-op so all of the houses were close together and there were a lot of families and other kids my age.

I think the number one thing you can do for your kid is to live in a neighborhood with lots of other kids.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#209

Post by opportune »

alistairSH wrote: post #186
derivagral wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, aren't they right? Middle class typically means you still have to work, strictly speaking. I'm going off of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#Three-level_econo...

Depends who you ask, or the context. Anecdotally, software developers, being more math-minded than average, tend to think of middle-class literally - the middle third or middle quintile of income distribution.

That has never been the meaning of the term historically and doesn’t capture the magnitudes-difference between the middle and upper classes.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#210

Post by meowster »

brudgers wrote: post #131
meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

These days, there aren't many kids who only do Scouting...it's an over-scheduling comorbidity. For kids who resist over-scheduling, scouting seems to be one of the first things to go...because den and pack meetings are by and for adults, they never make it to a troop. Or to put it another way, teenage apathy prevalence is probably pre-teen survivor bias.

I wonder what the rate of dropping out during Cub Scouts is vs Scouts BSA, vs how many don't cross over from Cubs to Scouts. The crossover happens around age 11, so I would imagine most of the dropouts happen later.
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