The unusual ways Western parents raise children • Hacker News Board

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#191

Post by pineaux » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #175

lqet wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. Relax. I occasionally ate fast food when I was 4, and I was definitely aware of the existence of McDonalds. I never had a weight problem in my life, and today I eat fast food maybe once every 3 months or so.

That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health,…

@rayiner: what a weird thing to say. Are you saying that all foods are equal, that the way you eat doesn't affect your health, thinking and environment in any substantial way?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#192

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #182

silicon2401 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health,…

Americans aren't fat because of Starbucks and McDonalds. Those things are just food. Americans are fat because they eat too many calories and don't get enough exercise: https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat... At age 2-3, my parents fed me traditional Bangladeshi meals of chicken or beef curry stewed in heavy amounts of canola oil. My 2 year old, meanwhile, lives on McDonald's chicken nuggets.…

That traditional bangladeshi meal doesn't sound like it's loaded with sugar like a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds, which is one distinct difference. another major difference is that the traditional bangladeshi meal sounds full of fiber and nutrients, which is also very different from a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds food.

If you're a robot with 100% dietary discipline, yes you can maintain the same weight whether you're eating purely lettuce, potato chips, or curry. But the average human will have a harder time sticking to their proper calories if they subsist on high-sugar, low-fiber, low-nutrient fast food compared to bangladeshi curry. I'm not talking about theory, I'm talking about real-life humans, and as evidence for my statement you can read the wikipedia page I linked containing data about the prevalence of overweightness and obesity in the US.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#193

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

lqet wrote: post #188

silicon2401 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health,…

I agree that there is an obesity problem (although I am not an American), but I am not so sure that demonizing french fries, Chicken McNuggets and hot chocolate from age 4 will have the desired effect. E, to answer the question below: because my personal experience from being a child and caring for a child is that anything that is demonized by the parents becomes extremely attractive.

Why do you think that?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#194

Post by rajin444 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#195

Post by xyzzyz » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #176

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and…

What's wrong with Starbucks and McDonalds? Kids drink glasses of milk. An iced latte is literally just a glass of milk with espresso in it. As to McDonalds--I'm not convinced it's any worse than the stuff I ate at that age in Bangladesh (curries heavy with oil, lots of carbs).

Starbucks latte is okay, calories wise. Frappuccino, not so much, with its quadruple calories bill.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#196

Post by ThrustVectoring » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

kkwteh wrote: post #47

From the perspective of the Lindy principle it is weird. I have an eighteen-month old child and have been reading a lot about child rearing since my wife got pregnant. It’s taboo to say this, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I suspect that a lack of adult attention in the first three years of life is a principal factor in the rising autism rates we’re seeing in modern economies. This would explain why autism…

> This would explain why autism seems to “cluster” in upper class homes, where the parents work nonstop.

The diagnosis of any mental health condition has causal factors outside of the presence and severity of the underlying condition. Specifically, there needs to be enough stress/maladaptation that diagnosis is sought in the first place, sufficient resources and access to care to seek diagnosis, and a support and care system that is otherwise unable to handle the patient.

It's not as simple as "has disease" => "get diagnosis". Bill Gross, the "Bond King", was too busy running mutual funds to get an autism spectrum diagnosis until a psychologist mentioned Asperger's in a dinner party in his seventies, whereupon his wife commented along the lines of "yeah, you obviously have it". If you don't get demands placed on you that you cannot meet, you don't get diagnosed.

Anyhow, my point is that upper class families are far more likely to A) place additional demands on their children, B) be able to seek professional diagnosis, and C) contract out childcare to workers in lieu of DIYing it and just putting up with their child behaving differently. This all is more than enough to predict the gap in diagnosis without any causal link between adult attention and autism. It's also the sort of thing to explain the correlation between diagnosis and low IQ - if you're autistic and smart, you're more likely to get enough pieces of your life right that nobody ends up putting in the effort to generate an official diagnosis.

> I suspect that a lack of adult attention in the first three years of life is a principal factor in the rising autism rates we’re seeing in modern economies.

My suspicion is that modern economies are a lot more atomized, and people suffer a lot more for not fitting into the square holes that are increasingly the only thing on offer. This also explains the rising diagnosis rates for other mental health conditions, especially ADHD.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#197

Post by rtx » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

ragnese wrote: post #151

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

I'm in the U.S. I personally know a non-trivial number of women who have gone through absolutely intense (real, diagnosed) anxiety and depression because of having to feed formula to their child instead of breast milk. If you ever get to peek into these "mommy groups" on social media or in person, you can see how much shaming goes on in there. And the breast milk one is one of the biggest issues people get shamed for…

Forcing formula is not abuse but neglect, unless done due to medical conditions. Don't fight evolution, formula is harder to digest. Why are you peddling pseudo science over here.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#198

Post by meowster » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #126

meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

It gets beaten out of you and the easiest response is to just give up and wait it out. “You don’t want to do this anymore? You need this for college, you shouldn’t quit everything you do, I wish I could have done this” etc. Eventually it’s just easier to passively suffer whatever activity you dislike and just recognize the starting cost to trying new things is extreme. > “ I try to tell them their old enough (most ar…

I know what they're parents are like during meetings and campouts. I have to manage them as much as I manage the boys. Some of them try to helicopter during meetings. There was one Scout that I've only seen smile when his dad wasn't around.

They don't seem to like the idea that Scouts is supposed to be youth-run/led and that it's okay to fail as long as they learn from it and improve. The parents just don't want them to fail or be uncomfortable at all (it's not always dry and warm outside).

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#199

Post by pineaux » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #176

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and…

What's wrong with Starbucks and McDonalds? Kids drink glasses of milk. An iced latte is literally just a glass of milk with espresso in it. As to McDonalds--I'm not convinced it's any worse than the stuff I ate at that age in Bangladesh (curries heavy with oil, lots of carbs).

Are you saying that there is no substantial difference between mcdonald's and curries?

Same kind of fat? Same kind of carbs? Same amount of fibers? Same amount of minerals and vitamins?

Sounds a bit like you are trying to provoke a discussion about this.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#200

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #176

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and…

What's wrong with Starbucks and McDonalds? Kids drink glasses of milk. An iced latte is literally just a glass of milk with espresso in it. As to McDonalds--I'm not convinced it's any worse than the stuff I ate at that age in Bangladesh (curries heavy with oil, lots of carbs).

I personally do not subscribe to the idea that giving a child ( in this case -- a 4 year old ) espresso is acceptable.

To answer your argument about Bangladesh food. Assuming McD is not worse ( I have no real data to say either way ),I am not sure it is a good argument either. You, typically, want your kids to do better so if McD is that upgrade, then I really cannot fault you for this. We all approach this with resources at our disposal.