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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#151

Post by ragnese »

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

I'm in the U.S.

I personally know a non-trivial number of women who have gone through absolutely intense (real, diagnosed) anxiety and depression because of having to feed formula to their child instead of breast milk. If you ever get to peek into these "mommy groups" on social media or in person, you can see how much shaming goes on in there. And the breast milk one is one of the biggest issues people get shamed for. Sometimes it's passive aggressive and indirect, and sometimes it's quite direct. They trot out headlines from questionable studies from totally different living environments in the world that indicate some 3 IQ point increase in kids that were breastfed and then they act like it's proof that formula feeding is child abuse.

The guilt and shame people feel over these things is very harmful.

I have some advice I'd like to spread and share. It applies to myself as well and I've been trying very hard to practice it. It is this:

If you are not a scientist who has actually conducted one of these studies; if you are not intimately familiar with the methodologies and the math techniques used in the analysis; if you've only ever read the headline and maybe an abstract of a study- then please don't give advice to anyone on the topic. Please don't spread "information" that X is better than Y.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#152

Post by rootusrootus »

nineplay wrote: post #140

"Parents in are better parents than you" is a real crowd pleaser when it comes to a chance to explain why your has just been Validated by Science. Someone once said that there is no more a right way to 'parent' than there is a right way to 'spouse' or 'child'. Everyone is different, every relationship is different. When I give advice to new parents, I tell them exactly that. Their relationship with their kid is going…

IMO that is excellent advice.

But we should continue to keep the threes a secret from potential parents, or the birth rate may go down even more precipitously.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#153

Post by Clewza313 »

mpalmer wrote: post #133

> Kuroda [...] didn’t find any correlation between the amount of time babies were carried and the amount they cried. "I couldn’t agree with that," she says. > Her research found that carrying a baby reduced [...] how much they cried. ...what?

Existing research said there was no correlation. Her research says there is a correlation.

Gotta say common sense is on Kuroda's side here, it's super common for babies to cry in strollers and then quiet down the moment they're picked up and held/plopped into a baby carrier.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#154

Post by [deleted] »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

[deleted]

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#155

Post by lqet »

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

Fully agree. Parenting gets a lot easier as soon as you accept that you don't have any clue what you are doing. The child must be loved, fed, washed, and dressed. Everything else is improvisation.

E: I remember sitting in antenatal class and mindful, well-educated parents asking stuff like the interval they should set their alarm clock to, so they know when to "correctly" feed their child. They read somewhere that a newborn needs milk every 1,5 hours and took that literally.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#156

Post by rootusrootus »

nomdep wrote: post #34
itsmemattchung wrote: post #17

Definitely something that my wife and I struggle with. She's Vietnamese British, I'm Vietnamese American ; both of us current living in the U.S. Despite what our training classes recommend, we're co-sleeping with our 17 month year old daughter and it feels more intuitive.

So - if you don't mind the question, sorry for asking if you do - how/when you have sex?

Isn't that sort of an old joke? Before you have kids, put a jelly bean in a jar every time you have sex. After you have kids, take a jelly bean out of the jar every time. At the end of your life you'll still have jelly beans left...

Obviously it varies a lot, and that is just a joke, but man it has been very true for me. My wife had a poor experience growing up, walking in on her mother having sex (they lived in a tiny apartment, so most of the space was shared), and so she has no interest in sex at all if there are children in the house. Anywhere. And it's a 3000sf house, not a tiny apartment.

Doesn't help that the kids (8 & 10) routinely choose to sleep in our room rather than their own (they do not sleep in our bed, however, we nixed that after they were a few years old because it was too disruptive to my sleep).

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#157

Post by valarauko »

screye wrote: post #92
diegocg wrote: post #24

>A 2016 review that looked at research on children sharing not just a room but a bed with one or more of their parents found a high prevalence in many Asian countries: Let me guess: there is a high correlation between sharing your room and poverty levels?

I don't understand needing a room for yourself before puberty strikes. Even then, sharing the room with a same-gender sibling doesn't sound too bad. It's funny because these same people go to college and share their dorm room for the 1st 2 years of university, when someone needs the most amount of privacy. > correlation between sharing your room and poverty levels In India, unless you are super rich, having a room to…

> The priority for bedrooms usually goes as follows:

    Parents -> Grand parents -> Guests -> Kids/Servants
I've only ever seen this order once, but I would agree that this is pretty much how most Indian households are setup. My SO's grandparents lived with their daughter & her family (6 in total) in a tiny one bedroom situation, and while I wasn't privy with their sleeping arrangements, I think the grandparents slept on the floor in the hall. It wouldn't surprise me if the female members of the household slept in one room while the men slept in the other. Their house was too small for multiple beds, so they usually rolled out mats when it was time to sleep. I think the elderly grandfather had a cot.

Growing up the youngest of three siblings in a 3 bedroom home, I usually slept on the sofa in the living room. I was supposed to share a room with my teenage brother, but he wouldn't tolerate me to be in the same room.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#158

Post by concordDance »

dlisboa wrote: post #87

Outside of neglect and abuse, is there really a WRONG way of raising a child? You see multiple different styles in different cultures. Some cultures where bed-sharing and baby-carrying is common also beat their kids and use other forms of punishment for disobedience. Wouldn't that be much "weirder"? It seems in Europe breastfeeding rates are really low and people use prams, but they might not beat the child as much (…

> neglect and abuse

There's a lot of hidden complexity and subjectivity in those two words.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#159

Post by [deleted] »

osterreich0000 wrote: post #114
meowster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if salaries were more competitive because there were less workers? If the cultural norm was to only have one parent work, then it seems like the supply of workers essentially doubles* if both parents work, leading to less competitive wages. *not exactly, but essentially. Yes, not everyone is married etc.

This is what's known as the "lump of labour" fallacy - the idea that there's a fixed amount of work that needs to be done, therefore opening the job market to more workers necessarily lowers wages due to "increased supply". The reality is that increasing the supply of workers doesn't necessarily mean increased competition for jobs. More people available to work means that more can be produced across the board; each a…

[deleted]

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#160

Post by [deleted] »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

[deleted]
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