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YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

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Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#411

Post by jobigoud »

jariel wrote: post #103
js2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black list and its opposite, white list, associate black with bad and white with good. The usage of black in “black box” means opaque, not bad. So these aren’t the same. I had never thought about the connotations of blacklist and whitelist before it was pointed out to me. In retrospect, blacklist and whitelist are unnatural meanings of the words black and white, and blocklist and allowlist make much more sense. Conse…

Blacklist and Whitelist are not 'unnatural' just the opposite, that's why we use terms, because they are natural. 'Darkness' is after all 'opaque', at night we can't see, 'light' is one of the most ancient metaphors for knowledge etc.. It just so happens that it might not map to skin colour very well, but I don't think it's appropriate to change them because there is no connotation. I buy that in some cases, there is…

> It just so happens that it might not map to skin colour very well

Personally I think it's the skintone names that are weird. White to mean a certain shade of pinkish beige... Black to mean a whole range from beige to brown to dark blueish brown.

Our brains are very good at differenciating skintones, unlike shades of cyan for example. But for some reason the skin tones names are caricatures.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#412

Post by jobigoud »

tptacek wrote: post #198
lwouis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kid but i've received 2 pull-requests on my open-source project, which only goal was to replace "Blacklist" with "Blocklist" in the app preferences. I don't receive many PRs. This is a real trend.

Just make a call. Is "blacklist" worth keeping? I've spent 25 years working in security, "blacklist" is a pretty core part of the lingo, and: fuck it; "blocklist" is just as good. But other people will answer for more-inclusive alternatives to "MITM", and I'm probably not going to change that. At least 50% of the drama about these language shifts comes from people who can't handle making decisions that make people un…

> But other people will answer for more-inclusive alternatives to "MITM", and I'm probably not going to change that.

Ha! Never thought about that one. Imagine if it had been Woman In The Middle though, the outrage!

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#413

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

drak0n1c wrote: post #225
andrewzah wrote: post #5

“ The researchers now suggest that social-media platforms should incorporate chess language in their algorithms to avoid future incidents like this.” Or maybe don’t automate banning YouTube channels via nebulous black boxes? Or can advertisers stop being afraid of anything and everything?

Advertisers, youtubers, users, brands - everyone was happy prior to the era of demonetization. What killed the golden goose was an extremely small set of activists and journalists (specifically Media Matters and Vox) methodically threatening brands with publication of screenshots of their "support" for controversial niche videos. And just enough brand marketing and YouTube employees were cowed, or at least ideologica…

Advertisers were definitely not happy.

https://venturebeat.com/2017/03/23/verizon-and-att-latest-to...

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#414

Post by curlypaul924 »

Fogest wrote: post #242
curlypaul924 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of those, I've heard of white hats, but I've not heard of white markets or white sites. If it had been black list and green list, I'm not sure anyone would have made a racial connection.

Yeah for sure. Like it's not racist that I like the white part of an Oreo cookie more than the black part. It just so happens that the cookie portions is called black and the filling colour is called white but other than that the colour is irrelevant. I also have never heard of white markets, but I have heard and often use the word "grey market" to indicate an in between of legal and the illegal markets. This helps p…

The oreo itself may not be racist, but it most definitely is associated with racism because of its colors. So I would caution you in using it as an analogy; it may be why your post was flagged.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#415

Post by mschuster91 »

drak0n1c wrote: post #225
andrewzah wrote: post #5

“ The researchers now suggest that social-media platforms should incorporate chess language in their algorithms to avoid future incidents like this.” Or maybe don’t automate banning YouTube channels via nebulous black boxes? Or can advertisers stop being afraid of anything and everything?

Advertisers, youtubers, users, brands - everyone was happy prior to the era of demonetization. What killed the golden goose was an extremely small set of activists and journalists (specifically Media Matters and Vox) methodically threatening brands with publication of screenshots of their "support" for controversial niche videos. And just enough brand marketing and YouTube employees were cowed, or at least ideologica…

> What killed the golden goose was an extremely small set of activists and journalists (specifically Media Matters and Vox) methodically threatening brands with publication of screenshots of their "support" for controversial niche videos.

Wrong. There are multiple points that come in play here, none of which are as simple as "the activists are protesting against Nazi and conspiracy crap":

First of all, linear TV, radio and newspapers had human reviews in the loop at every stage: client, producer, ad broker, station/paper. That meant that the chance of valuable ads appearing next to bullshit was somewhat next to zero - and also, that "fringe content" was restricted to unscrupulous (or from the same niche) advertisers. Essentially, there was a feedback loop: content that was not mainstream-worthy had no chance of being financed.

Internet advertising and especially social networks with monetization and targeted advertising however, turned up all of that. Suddenly, a Nestle ad could run as a front-roll of Alex Jones lunacy. The result was that an awful lot of really awful content creators had both the technical capability to reach out to millions of people (thanks to the Internet, which eliminated the traditional gatekeepers) and the advertising income that was previously reserved to mainstream-able content.

The result of that, in turn, was an explosion in numbers of these "content creators" and their content (simply because many of them could now actually afford to quit regular jobs)... and thus, combined with the explosion of followers of such content, meant minorities had to suffer from a constant barrage of both online hate speech and real world violence - including many acts of terrorism that claimed human lives, and culminating in the events of January 6th 2021.

What the "extremely small set of activists and journalists" is doing is attempting to rein in the hate and the violence that results of it. And yes, making brands and their advertising agencies aware of what is going on and where their money ends up is a good thing.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#416

Post by Nemrod67 »

dagmx wrote: post #128
afavour wrote: post #3

Not sure what a thinly resourced piece like this is doing so high up on HN. There’s really very little evidence that this has anything to do with racial slurs. From a quick read: last June, the channel was banned for “harmful and dangerous” content. The ban was removed in under 24 hours. YouTube has not confirmed the reason. And yet: > Experts suspect that it was the usage of words like "black" and "white" that confu…

> Not sure what a thinly resourced piece like this is doing so high up on HN. Honestly, and anecdotally, I think there's been a large influx of people recently on the right wing spectrum and/or the more outrage driven spectrum. I've noticed a considerable shift in the number of outraged comments and right wing view points in the last few months. I believe this ties in to the deplatforming of Parler. I can only surmis…

We were here all along, and yes the current trajectory of the World is starting to rattle things.

We might have been too polite and kept things to ourselves, not that the "Left" understands Social and Philosophical equilibrium.

Maybe we should talk more about things that separate us to bridge them, rather than pointing ever angrier fingers.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#417

Post by rsynnott »

> They found that 80% of chess videos that were flagged for hate speech actually ahd terms like 'black,' 'white,' 'attack' and 'threat.'

Surely effectively all chess videos, banned or not, have those words in them? This all feels pretty speculative.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#418

Post by f137 »

How come that in 21st century we are still using the racially degrading terms, like black and white, in so many places?

Does it take a lot of effort to replace them with neutral non-offensive colors?

Speaking about chess, don't you think that chess being mostly-male mostly-white is a direct consequence of the language they use?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#419

Post by killtimeatwork »

f137 wrote: post #418

How come that in 21st century we are still using the racially degrading terms, like black and white, in so many places? Does it take a lot of effort to replace them with neutral non-offensive colors? Speaking about chess, don't you think that chess being mostly-male mostly-white is a direct consequence of the language they use?

I'm (only) 80% sure your comment is a parody.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#420

Post by forgotmypw17 »

I'm not sure how to word this... I'm confused that we are still calling people "black" and "white", when their actual color is nowhere near those two. It's no longer cool to call people "yellow" or "redskin", so why are those still accepted?

People I know actually use "dark-brown", "light-brown", and "light-skinned" and other such more accurately descriptive terms when actually describing someone's appearance, and I like that much better.

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